Copper Clad Aluminum NM vs Copper NM for Small Scale Multifamily

[James L]

I would think there would be a distinct difference in the feel and bending.
But it would probably just go over a lot of apprentice and J men's head. And they would treat it like copper.

Yes, that's what I'm thinking.
First time I experienced it, I knew it bent like aluminum. I immediately knew

But lots of guys will ignore the little voice, quietly .screaming at them

 

[Birken Vogt]

Considering it looks like regular copper, I would imagine most guys will just use regular wire nuts and regular devices

I doubt that will be a problem. IIRC the wire nuts they sell are just some normal wire nuts rebranded and sold with their name on them. The only problem I can guess will be too much flexing leading to breakage where copper would have survived. Maybe.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I doubt that will be a problem. IIRC the wire nuts they sell are just some normal wire nuts rebranded and sold with their name on them. The only problem I can guess will be too much flexing leading to breakage where copper would have survived. Maybe.

Rebranded and re-evaluated for use with CCA and identified with the "CC" marking required for wire nuts used with CCA.
They just paid for the additional testing to get the CC mark, something the main stream manufacturers won't do for their products.
However, you are correct, there was no physical changes made in the rebranded wire nuts, and standard wire nuts will be fine, other than the 110.3(B) violation.

 

[letgomywago]

I don't think so, is it?
CCA is supposed to be terminated with CO/ALR terminals, which would include devices.

Considering it looks like regular copper, I would imagine most guys will just use regular wire nuts and regular devices 🫤

Devices are rated for CU and CCA usually. Wirenuts are the gotcha in this instance.

 

[Birken Vogt]

I expect the wire nut issue will be moot in a few years. What incentive would the wire nut manufacturers have to not list their products for CCA?

 

[letgomywago]

I expect the wire nut issue will be moot in a few years. What incentive would the wire nut manufacturers have to not list their products for CCA?

Probably true but same as the purple ones costing a lot it's down to paying for lawyers. If someone says unknown cause of fire but there CCA in the fire damage that'll get the blame. I've seen more fires from chargers and batteries more than electrical wiring issues.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I expect the wire nut issue will be moot in a few years. What incentive would the wire nut manufacturers have to not list their products for CCA?

They don't like CCA. They have been asked by the CCA manufactures to get their products evaluated for use with CCA and refused. That is why copper-weld has their re-branded wire nuts on the marked.

 

[LarryFine]

What incentive would the wire nut manufacturers have to not list their products for CCA?

Lack of demand, a trend that many of us apparently hope continues.

 

[norcal]

Lack of demand, a trend that many of us apparently hope continues.

Agree with that, I have no issues with aluminum alloy conductors in larger sizes, but can't stand the smaller AL for branch circuits.

 

[Sparky Adam]

We've installed CCA in several hundred homes with no issues. At first, we were skeptical of it, but some of our builders required that we use and after a couple communities all of our teams were comfortable with it.

It's listed just like copper wire and most municipalities allow it.

With copper prices fluctuating as much as they have in the past couple years, CCA is a good replacement.

 

[Sparky Adam]

copper coated aluminum was popular back in the late 1960s. I used a few rolls back then, harder to pull and strip, difficult to get good contact under screw heads, stripped a few outlet screws and threw the outlet away.

savings might be eaten up by more hours on the job due to larger wires.

We haven't seen any delays in the install of homes with CCA. Done a few hundred homes.

 

[TwistLock]

I work a few buildings with old CCA. I would add to the subject of stripping and terminating that what I’ve worked with doesn’t correspond to CU strip gauges (of course) for existing hand tools. But no big deal you just use solid #10 CU stripper for solid #12 CCA etc., similar to solid v stranded CU awg, and it works well enough. That is if you’re careful. Making a circumference score into wire, especially AL, can set up problems down the road. And that would make me wonder just how cognizant some of the younger members of the installation crew are going to be working with a new product?

 

[James L]

I work a few buildings with old CCA. I would add to the subject of stripping and terminating that what I’ve worked with doesn’t correspond to CU strip gauges (of course) for existing hand tools. But no big deal you just use solid #10 CU stripper for solid #12 CCA etc., similar to solid v stranded CU awg, and it works well enough. That is if you’re careful. Making a circumference score into wire, especially AL, can set up problems down the road. And that would make me wonder just how cognizant some of the younger members of the installation crew are going to be working with a new product?

Yes, every time I've seen it, it's an in-between gauge, like 13, 11, etc

 

[norcal]

Not worth it in my book.

hates heat, termination needs addressing.
breaks easy, frail after a few bends - absolutley need to respect the manual labor and no wire nicks and this makes future panel maintenance a disaster as the wires get shorter.
need to step up in size, bigger holes
And - most importantly - feels cheap.

I cant speak for the current alloys, but way back in the day my old mans friend was an employee at a contractor, to save costs they switched to aluminum. The unspoken record of 15 years of using aluminum in a population boom, there was alot more unexplained fires in homes in the area of homes built in those 15 years of time frame.

Stick with copper. I am, no matter the cost or innovation of where aluminum is currently at or ends it. (pun intended)

Food for thought.

Tract homes, multi-family dwellings, are built as cheap as possible, CCAL is just another path to the bottom.

 

[Seven-Delta-FortyOne]

I think I would hate the box fill from the larger wires.

It’s already getting difficult to fit GFCI, dimmers, receptacles with usb ports, etc., into these boxes.

And the preponderance of 3-ways everywhere. I’m not tryin’ to stuff these boxes any fuller.

 

[TBsmd4]

Size it like aluminum. Terminate like copper.
It is being used all across the USA. It was used in the '70's with no requirements for special wire connectors (wirenuts). Most devices, maybe all, nowadays are rated CO/ALR. Copper clad is accepted on either cu or CO/ALR terminations. Copper clad building wire adheres to the exact same UL standards that copper does - UL 719 for Nonmetallic-Sheathed Cables. My home was wired with copper clad in 1976 and I have had no issues because of it.