Copper Theft Insurance

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jdouglas

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Maybe you guys have covered this. IS there any insurance that covers wire ripped out after installation? I have a job coming up in a not so wonderful neighborhood. WHat do I need to ask for and what "fine print" do I need to watch out for? Thanks
 
Hey, after you install it, it's not even yours anymore. Why insure what's not even yours? I found out during the K-Mart bankruptcy that what's just delivered to the jobsite isn't mine anymore either. That still grinds on me.
 
jdouglas said:
Maybe you guys have covered this. IS there any insurance that covers wire ripped out after installation? I have a job coming up in a not so wonderful neighborhood. WHat do I need to ask for and what "fine print" do I need to watch out for? Thanks
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I think you may find the local gun shop sells the insurance you are looking for:roll:
 
jdouglas said:
WHat do I need to ask for?
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How about a clause in your contract that you are not responsible for theft, and that any material that has been installed is the owners property at that point?
 
marc had it - once its installed it belongs to the person who paid you to install it. its up to them to secure their jobsite.
 
brantmacga said:
marc had it - once its installed it belongs to the person who paid you to install it. its up to them to secure their jobsite.
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Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???

If the ownership changes hands at installation, why would the new owner(Harry Homeowner, HH) pay the former owner (Sparky) AFTER HH already "owns" it?

Why would Sparky be responsible for code compliance issues when Sparky is no longer the owner after he installed it?

I do not own the steering wheel when they put it on the car - I do not own it until I take delivery.
 
inspector23 said:
Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???
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Yes, exactly. You will bump into this if you ever attempt to "repossess" material you've installed but didn't get paid for, for whatever reason. They'll string you up for theft if you try that. A lein is the only way. Same rules in every state, regardless of the male-bravado type stories you may have heard or may soon hear in response.
 
inspector23 said:
Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???

If the ownership changes hands at installation, why would the new owner(Harry Homeowner, HH) pay the former owner (Sparky) AFTER HH already "owns" it?

Why would Sparky be responsible for code compliance issues when Sparky is no longer the owner after he installed it?

I do not own the steering wheel when they put it on the car - I do not own it until I take delivery.
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In Califonia once it is delivered to the job it can not be removed due to lack of payment. Getting paid is a separate legal issue , That is why they have liens and pre-liens.
 
inspector23 said:
Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???

If the ownership changes hands at installation, why would the new owner(Harry Homeowner, HH) pay the former owner (Sparky) AFTER HH already "owns" it?

Why would Sparky be responsible for code compliance issues when Sparky is no longer the owner after he installed it?

I do not own the steering wheel when they put it on the car - I do not own it until I take delivery.
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Good point. Thats the kind of scenario im talking about. Say 10 guys rough in a floor of a hotel and finish it up at lunchtime saturday. Monday morning rolls around and you find 10 other guys came in and cleaned you out. WHose paying?
 
inspector23 said:
Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???
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That's really decided by the courts, after an insurance claim has been paid and the insurer sues whoever else they can.

The basic principle at work is this: if you install wiring on the customer's premises, and the customer hasn't paid you for it, you still can't go rip it back out. You extended credit to the customer, and the customer has de facto taken delivery of the wiring on credit. If the customer doesn't make the payment schedule, you'd have to sue for recourse (or else risk getting charged with theft for removing it).

Much like the car dealership can't take your steering wheel before you've made the first car payment. You bought the car when they extended you the credit and gave you the keys, not when you made your first installment.
 
I believe the reason is if Joe home owner pays GC #1 in full , then GC#1 fails to pay all the sub contractors and parts suppliers. Why should he have his house "or steering wheel" repossesed? If the subs did not file pre-liens there would be no way of the Home owner knowing who all the potential "steering wheel owners" are..
 
mdshunk said:
Not you... and a big project like that normally has a night watchman... no?
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The last big project I was on they had no night watchman, But if they did he would be the one under the most suspicion.:cool:
 
mdshunk said:
Not you... and a big project like that normally has a night watchman... no?
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Most of the time marc ,its just an area just being developed and it looks like it has potential for mischief. havent been hit just wanted to be educated before i was schooled!
 
inspector23 said:
Even before it has been signed off by inspectors and transfer of funds???
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If it is just sitting on the job site, the insurance adjuster will call it material, and it's your responsibility.

If it's been installed, it's called real estate, and it belongs to the HO.

Inspections have nothing to do with ownership. Neither does transfer of funds.

Years ago, I got sent to install 20 microwaves that had been delivered to an apartment building. My boss wanted them installed so they wouldn't get stolen out of the garages they had been set in. The night after I installed them, they were all ripped off the walls. All 20 of them. Backplates and all.
Since they had been installed, they belonged to the builder.
 
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acrwc10 said:
The last big project I was on they had no night watchman, But if they did he would be the one under the most suspicion.:cool:
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Maybe it's a regional thing, or maybe the private security companies around here just hussle more. Seems like if there's a commercial project happening of any modest size, there's a night watchman parked there in his car from dusk to dawn. Heck, saw one at a Rite Aid drug store under construction the other day. That's not really that big. On warehouse type larger projects, they drive a little Gator or golf cart around the perimeter of the jobsite all night long. Sounds pretty boring, to me.
 
jdouglas said:
Most of the time marc ,its just an area just being developed and it looks like it has potential for mischief. havent been hit just wanted to be educated before i was schooled!
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If you do get any installed material stolen, the #1 worst thing you can do is re-install it. Wait until you're authorized by the owner (with signature) or his representatives (insurance man) to re-install it. If you just ruffed in the second floor of a 10 story hotel, move on to the third floor and wait for the powers that be to hash out what to do on the second floor. It is honestly not your problem, in that case.
 
mdshunk said:
Maybe it's a regional thing, or maybe the private security companies around here just hussle more. Seems like if there's a commercial project happening of any modest size, there's a night watchman parked there in his car from dusk to dawn. Heck, saw one at a Rite Aid drug store under construction the other day. That's not really that big. On warehouse type larger projects, they drive a little Gator or golf cart around the perimeter of the jobsite all night long. Sounds pretty boring, to me.
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Not if you get a badge and a flashlight.
 
All residential job I have been involved with the bank will not loan any monies until their is a builders risk insurance policy in place. This covers the contractor, bank and homeowner if any material is stolen from the job site including material already installed. You just need to make sure that the clause that you are not responsible for material that is installed, that is damaged due to acts of nature, vandalism or stolen is in your contract. On the other hand if you leave 4 or 5 1000' spools of 12-2 siting around over night well that's your business.
 
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