Cord Reel

[texie]

Industrial cord reel with factory, flexible supply cord pigtail directly connected to building wiring...
Seems to me to fall under 400.7(A)(3) (an appliance). As such it needs to be plug and receptacle connected per 400.7(B).
Thoughts?...........

 

[wwhitney]

Industrial cord reel with factory, flexible supply cord pigtail directly connected to building wiring...
Seems to me to fall under 400.7(A)(3) (an appliance).

The cord reel itself is not an appliance, as it is not utilization equipment. Or did you mean something else?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[templdl]

Industrial cord reel with factory, flexible supply cord pigtail directly connected to building wiring...
Seems to me to fall under 400.7(A)(3) (an appliance). As such it needs to be plug and receptacle connected per 400.7(B).
Thoughts?...........

Any cord on a real is an accident waiting to happen. It is very common just to unreal just enough length to do the job that you need to do leaving the rest drilled on the real. As such any heating of the cord as a result of the load can cause thee unrapped cord to get hot. I would not advise it.

 

[steve66]

The second to the last sentence of this press release seems to indicate they can be hard wired without a receptacle:

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/PressReleaseDetail.aspx?ID=50

Any cord on a real is an accident waiting to happen. It is very common just to unreal just enough length to do the job that you need to do leaving the rest drilled on the real. As such any heating of the cord as a result of the load can cause thee unrapped cord to get hot. I would not advise it.

They are UL listed.

 

[jap]

Any cord on a real is an accident waiting to happen. It is very common just to unreal just enough length to do the job that you need to do leaving the rest drilled on the real. As such any heating of the cord as a result of the load can cause thee unrapped cord to get hot. I would not advise it.

No one unreels their cord reel the entire length every time they use it.
At least I don't.
And I've never had an issue with them burning up.

I've had 2 for the last 10 years that are still plugging along.


JAP>

 

[GoldDigger]

No one unreels their cord reel the entire length every time they use it.
At least I don't.
And I've never had an issue with them burning up.

I've had 2 for the last 10 years that are still plugging along.


JAP>

I would not be surprised if some cord reels provide better ventilation for the cord remaining on the reel than others do.
It also depends on how heavily loaded the cord is relative to its nominal capacity.

I would always start by checking what the instructions for using the reel call for.

 

[texie]

The cord reel itself is not an appliance, as it is not utilization equipment. Or did you mean something else?

Cheers, Wayne

Good point.

 

[texie]

The second to the last sentence of this press release seems to indicate they can be hard wired without a receptacle:

http://www.hubbell-wiring.com/press/PressReleaseDetail.aspx?ID=50




They are UL listed.

It would seem so based on that link. Learned something. Thanks.

 

[templdl]

No one unreels their cord reel the entire length every time they use it.
At least I don't.
And I've never had an issue with them burning up.

I've had 2 for the last 10 years that are still plugging along.


JAP>

Your answer is a bit ambiguous as you omitted ststing what the actusl manufactures directions state and what the actusl load was and the loads duration. Let's say the circuit feeding the cord reel is a 15a circuit which is rated for a 12a continuous load. Now take a heat gun rated at 1440w and run it for an hour with the cord reel partially pulled out. One cord real that I'm aware of melted the cord together it got so hot. When it was allowed to cool the cord could no longer be pulled out.
And regarding this magical UL label, does that label give you direction that it can be used in any way that you would like as is being implied or is it labeled only if the cord reel is used according to the manufacturers directions?
What do the directions say? Normally the reel is to be completely unrealed before using which most people ignore.

 

[iwire]

Your answer is a bit ambiguous as you omitted ststing what the actusl manufactures directions state and what the actusl load was and the loads duration. Let's say the circuit feeding the cord reel is a 15a circuit which is rated for a 12a continuous load. Now take a heat gun rated at 1440w and run it for an hour with the cord reel partially pulled out. One cord real that I'm aware of melted the cord together it got so hot. When it was allowed to cool the cord could no longer be pulled out.
And regarding this magical UL label, does that label give you direction that it can be used in any way that you would like as is being implied or is it labeled only if the cord reel is used according to the manufacturers directions?
What do the directions say? Normally the reel is to be completely unrealed before using which most people ignore.

There are thousands in use every day regardless of your fears.

 

[templdl]

There are thousands in use every day regardless of your fears.

And, does hat m as we it right? Then if a licensed electrician who understands the NEC violates the code because in their opinion the installation is still safe that is acceptable. I understand that these Ford reals are commonly used for "very light" loads such as portable electric tools but what prevents their misuse per my illustration?
Should a licensed electrician intentionally install s cord real which may not be used according to the manufactures instructions?. If a UL listed cord real states that the cord must be completely extended before use should a competent licensed electrician go ahead and install it anyway?

 

[jap]

And, does hat m as we it right? Then if a licensed electrician who understands the NEC violates the code because in their opinion the installation is still safe that is acceptable. I understand that these Ford reals are commonly used for "very light" loads such as portable electric tools but what prevents their misuse per my illustration?
Should a licensed electrician intentionally install s cord real which may not be used according to the manufactures instructions?. If a UL listed cord real states that the cord must be completely extended before use should a competent licensed electrician go ahead and install it anyway?

What prevents the misuse of any electrical circuit an electrician might install?
I could load any circuit to its max just under breaker trip and probably melt all the wiring down around it.

But to your point , you're right.

We should all start reading more of the Manufacturers recommendations and warnings.

Heck, just the other day I aimed my wife's blow dryer at my face for about an hour and it burned my nose.

Jap>

 

[jap]

Is not the electricians place to stay on site and pull the cord reel completely out every time the customer needs to use it.

JAP>

 

[templdl]

There are thousands in use every day regardless of your fears.

Interesting. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but this subject needs to be addressed. Then here is no liability to hard wire a cord reel that is feed by a ,15 or 20a circuit and essentially has
no practical overload protection for the cord reel should the cord not be fully extended when used.
If the licensed electrician does this are there obvious instruction that the user sees when using the cord reel in a *reasonable attempt" to prevent it from bring misused? If not, maybe it is the manufacturer and a UL requirement issue.
Would an electrician be allowed to run a 12ga circuit as protected by a 20a breaker and then extend the circuit with 16ga wire? It is hard wired as would be a cord real. The key is that the user does have a choice with the cord reel if there is sufficient signage to warn the user of its proper use. The cord may be 16ga that is rated for 15a in open air but when roled up that no longer applies. If the electrician leaves the installation in this condition of course it would be up to the user from that point on. But for each user to climb up to read the instructions on the reel enclosure would be an issue as that's certainly no going to happen. Wouldn't an electrician be handing a user a loaded gun by installing a cord reel that would be prone to being misused? What is the electrician's liability be should the user to this and there is a failure that leads to property loss or even worse?

 

[jap]

Interesting. I'm not trying to beat a dead horse but this subject needs to be addressed. Then here is no liability to hard wire a cord reel that is feed by a ,15 or 20a circuit and essentially has
no practical overload protection for the cord reel should the cord not be fully extended when used.
If the licensed electrician does this are there obvious instruction that the user sees when using the cord reel in a *reasonable attempt" to prevent it from bring misused? If not, maybe it is the manufacturer and a UL requirement issue.
Would an electrician be allowed to run a 12ga circuit as protected by a 20a breaker and then extend the circuit with 16ga wire? It is hard wired as would be a cord real. The key is that the user does have a choice with the cord reel if there is sufficient signage to warn the user of its proper use. The cord may be 16ga that is rated for 15a in open air but when roled up that no longer applies. If the electrician leaves the installation in this condition of course it would be up to the user from that point on. But for each user to climb up to read the instructions on the reel enclosure would be an issue as that's certainly no going to happen. Wouldn't an electrician be handing a user a loaded gun by installing a cord reel that would be prone to being misused? What is the electrician's liability be should the user to this and there is a failure that leads to property loss or even worse?

How is this any different from a light fixture that has 16 or 18ga. wire to the sockets hard wired to a 20 amp branch circuit?

JAP>

 

[jap]

After I leave the jobsite how do I know they're not going to screw a 250w heat lamp into a socket rated for a max 60w bulb when they have not understanding of how wattage affects amperage ?

JAP>

 

[templdl]

How is this any different from a light fixture that has 16 or 18ga. wire to the sockets hard wired to a 20 amp branch circuit?

JAP>

Are you familiar with the UL listing requirements for the fixtures in question? The fixture wires as you refered to are essentially UL listed taps there we ire ampacity dependent upon the max load of the fixture, the wire is rated for the most part 110deg C rise. Now, why do you think this has anything to do with a cord reel not bring fully extended when used?
This is why it is important to understand the implications of what and why we are doing and not just pulling wire, mounting boxes and devices without giving it a thought. The reason the things are done in the way that they are must be understood in order to make an "informed and reasonable decisions" when gray areas come in to play.

 

[templdl]

After I leave the jobsite how do I know they're not going to screw a 250w heat lamp into a socket rated for a max 60w bulb when they have not understanding of how wattage affects amperage ?

JAP>

Is the fixture labeled with the max wattage or did you remove that too? Did you assure that the the proper labeling and signage was affixed to the device when the job was completed? If not, what is your liability as a professional since the device is not in compliance to the NEC art 110.1 regarding following the examination, identification, installation and use of equipment.
If you are a licensed electrician where does it allow you to take an exception to this?
If you have assure that you installation complies with this article when you leave the site of course it is obvious that you would not be responsible for putting a 250w heat lamp in a 60w rated fixure ONLY IF the manufacturer's signage and labeling are there for the user to see. Would that be common sense unless you failed to assure that the signature and labeling we as present. Then, shame on you. There thsn thst of course you can't keep a user from acting stupidly.

 

[jap]

Is the fixture labeled with the max wattage or did you remove that too? Did you assure that the the proper labeling and signage was affixed to the device when the job was completed? If not, what is your liability as a professional since the device is not in compliance to the NEC art 110.1 regarding following the examination, identification, installation and use of equipment.
If you are a licensed electrician where does it allow you to take an exception to this?
If you have assure that you installation complies with this article when you leave the site of course it is obvious that you would not be responsible for putting a 250w heat lamp in a 60w rated fixure ONLY IF the manufacturer's signage and labeling are there for the user to see. Would that be common sense unless you failed to assure that the signature and labeling we as present. Then, shame on you. There thsn thst of course you can't keep a user from acting stupidly.

Yes the fixture is labeled with the max wattage. No I don't remove them. I didn't have to affix the label and signage on the fixture, it comes that way right out of the box.
I am a liscensed electrician. I never said I peel stickers off or use Non-UL listed products.
Shame on you for thinking I'd do such.

Be careful.


JAP>

 

[jap]

Are you familiar with the UL listing requirements for the fixtures in question? The fixture wires as you refered to are essentially UL listed taps there we ire ampacity dependent upon the max load of the fixture, the wire is rated for the most part 110deg C rise. Now, why do you think this has anything to do with a cord reel not bring fully extended when used?
This is why it is important to understand the implications of what and why we are doing and not just pulling wire, mounting boxes and devices without giving it a thought. The reason the things are done in the way that they are must be understood in order to make an "informed and reasonable decisions" when gray areas come in to play.

Yes.
Yes.

With what your bringing up cord reels should be banned all together. Along with several other UL Listed products yet poorly made that are too numerous to list.

I understand electrical implications but I don't worry about the implications of thousands of people who don't unreel their cord reels all the way before they use them.


JAP>