Cost of inspections

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jaylectricity said:
It varies from town to town in Mass. Some towns I can call the inspector on his cell phone and if he's free he'll come right over, or we agree to meet at lunch or after work.
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My confusion here is if he will come after work, what is it that he does while he is at work? If it is electrical inspections isn't he still working when he comes?:huh:
 
mgookin said:
I was in school at the National Fire Academy (United States Fire Administration) and one of my classmates was the Oklahoma State Fire Marshal.

He leaves his office Monday morning for a trek around the state. He gets back on Friday.

And when did you want that inspection?
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If you are located close to his office, sounds like you better plan for early Monday or late Friday:happyyes:
 
kwired said:
My confusion here is if he will come after work, what is it that he does while he is at work? If it is electrical inspections isn't he still working when he comes?:huh:
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I've gone by after work a couple times on my own dime. It was because of some screw up on our side where the call was missed. I've also left the office early on the City dime but my own car to catch a call that was missed.

We also due scheduled overtime inspections. It is mostly for run of the mill stuff and we used to do a lot of those when we were closed every Friday. The most common overtime I've done over the years are service changes. I've gone out at all hours of the day and night including weekends.

We are also on call on a rotating basis on the weekends. During the winter months it's almost guaranteed your going out for a house fire where a Fire has started in someone's fireplace. We go out to post the building unsafe if need be. Other fun ones are the car versus building ones. Surprisingly a lot of cars crash into buildings in parking lots.
 
sandsnow said:
I've gone by after work a couple times on my own dime. It was because of some screw up on our side where the call was missed. I've also left the office early on the City dime but my own car to catch a call that was missed.

We also due scheduled overtime inspections. It is mostly for run of the mill stuff and we used to do a lot of those when we were closed every Friday. The most common overtime I've done over the years are service changes. I've gone out at all hours of the day and night including weekends.

We are also on call on a rotating basis on the weekends. During the winter months it's almost guaranteed your going out for a house fire where a Fire has started in someone's fireplace. We go out to post the building unsafe if need be. Other fun ones are the car versus building ones. Surprisingly a lot of cars crash into buildings in parking lots.
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Overtime is still on your employer, but "on your own dime" means you were not necessarily authorized by your employer to be there when you were. Although you may be doing the "nice guy" thing, what happens if you are seriously injured while performing your job while not actually "on the job"? Or if some legal thing comes up later on and it is mentioned you did this "official" inspection on "your own time"? IMO if you are truly representing your employer (the AHJ) then you are on their time whether being directly paid or not, but since you also are an employee - you need to consider other employment rules that may apply. If your work day strictly ends at 5PM, then it is probably good idea not to do any activity for your employer after 5PM, unless otherwise authorized. If you actually have to "punch in-out" in some way maybe you are covered as long as you actually are "in".
 
In the OP the question about requiring a person to be on site was raised. Not required. Have the inspection card, city approved plans, access to everything that needs to be inspected, and everything open. That's how I was taught when I started.
Some inspectors are lazy and require you to be there. It does make things go faster sometimes. If an inspector can't figure out what's going on by looking at the plans, then he's in the wrong job. Leaving a note on-site saying just inspect the first floor works too. If you leave your phone number I can call you if I have any questions.

If you can't leave a paperboard turned off and open, we have to make arrangements to meet. That's just one example.

A lot of guys want to be there and that's fine. I'll try to accommodate you, but priority needs to go to jobs where someone has to be there as above.
 
kwired said:
Overtime is still on your employer, but "on your own dime" means you were not necessarily authorized by your employer to be there when you were. Although you may be doing the "nice guy" thing, what happens if you are seriously injured while performing your job while not actually "on the job"? Or if some legal thing comes up later on and it is mentioned you did this "official" inspection on "your own time"? IMO if you are truly representing your employer (the AHJ) then you are on their time whether being directly paid or not, but since you also are an employee - you need to consider other employment rules that may apply. If your work day strictly ends at 5PM, then it is probably good idea not to do any activity for your employer after 5PM, unless otherwise authorized. If you actually have to "punch in-out" in some way maybe you are covered as long as you actually are "in".
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Your absolutely right. I would be in big doo doo. It's sad that in these times that such things have to come into play.
 
augie47 said:
I can only echo what the other posts relate.
By statue, we are required to make your inspection within 72 hours of the request.:)
In reality 90% of mine are completed the day following the request but, as noted above, there are so many things that affect the routine the time frame can easily slip by hours.
That said, we don't require your presence at the inspection. If you wish to be there the best I can normally do is give you a 4 hour "possible" window and call you when you are next.
As other have stated, the "unknowns" are the killer. That 1st inspection that you think is going to take 1/2 hour takes 2..
I'm sure some of the guys here can tell you that in some areas you are lucky to know what week the inspector will be there.
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"Calling when your next" is a HUGE help. This is exactly the type of thing that I personally think implies an attitude of cooperation where the inspector and contractor work together to meet the demands we both have.
 
sandsnow said:
For OP question number two, the short answer is it depends.
One example.
My stops are done in geographical logical order. Typically I don't want to go back and forth across town.
So, you call me and I tell you between 9 and 10. I have a couple stops I can do before I get to you. So then one those stops calls and cancels. I get to the other stop and the guy runs out and says I'm sorry but I'm not ready. So now I'm going to be at your job at 8:30. If I have your phone number kitchen can call you, but that doesn't change that I'm locked into schedule. It's 8:30 or tomorrow. I might have time to swing by on the way back into the office, but my schedule is already getting shot to heck.

Other things that mess with me are:

Getting everything all laid out and my boss comes and says Fred didn't show up today, so here's five more calls.

Getting everything laid out and my boss wants to meet at some job and the only time is the time I just gave to you.

The job before yours is a complete disaster and it takes much longer than I had planned and I'm already running a little behind.

Some days are a complete disaster and I have to focus on just making every stop.
Some days are easy and I can even go back to your job in the afternoon.

I will take your number and call you when I'm on my way.

So that's a little bit of my world.
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Thanks for your reply sandsnow. I appreciate having an inspector's perspective. I also read your later post about attitude and appreciate those thoughts. I don't doubt that there are things that mess with an inspectors schedule. Unfortunately those things are not unique to being an inspector. As a contractor I too deal with guys calling in sick, customers forgetting to leave keys, vans breaking down, etc. Despite all of that, we set appointments with generally no more than a 30 minute window. One of the comments you made was that your schedule gets messed up by another contractor not being ready or a job being a total mess. Those things are definitely real, I would just hope that inspectors make those who are responsible suffer for those situations and not make the rest of us wait for someone elses mistakes or lack of concern. If you show up to your first appointment and the guy isn't ready, he should pay for that inspection and you move on the the next. I realize you would be early to the next inspection and I guess that is why you don't want to give a narrower time frame. But, you could use that unexpected windfall of time to return calls, look up code reference for other jobs etc. The time is paid for already by the guy who wasn't prepared...as it should be. Given the demands on contractor's and inspector's alike, I just think ANY jurisdiction can do better than 4 hours. As I mentioned previously, simply letting me know if I am the first stop of the day would already give me an extra 30 minutes. At the end of the day, asking 5-10 contractors to be on standby with their schedule to accommodate one inspector is by default going to waste a lot of time. I think inspectors who understand that and do their best to be considerate of the time that is wasted and what it means to contractors' and their customers are appreciated by contractors. I know I always thank an inspector who gives me a narrow window. It's more than just a convenience, it often reduces stress dramatically and allows us to be more productive.
 
sfav8r said:
Thanks for your reply sandsnow. I appreciate having an inspector's perspective. I also read your later post about attitude and appreciate those thoughts. I don't doubt that there are things that mess with an inspectors schedule. Unfortunately those things are not unique to being an inspector. As a contractor I too deal with guys calling in sick, customers forgetting to leave keys, vans breaking down, etc. Despite all of that, we set appointments with generally no more than a 30 minute window. One of the comments you made was that your schedule gets messed up by another contractor not being ready or a job being a total mess. Those things are definitely real, I would just hope that inspectors make those who are responsible suffer for those situations and not make the rest of us wait for someone elses mistakes or lack of concern. If you show up to your first appointment and the guy isn't ready, he should pay for that inspection and you move on the the next. I realize you would be early to the next inspection and I guess that is why you don't want to give a narrower time frame. But, you could use that unexpected windfall of time to return calls, look up code reference for other jobs etc. The time is paid for already by the guy who wasn't prepared...as it should be. Given the demands on contractor's and inspector's alike, I just think ANY jurisdiction can do better than 4 hours. As I mentioned previously, simply letting me know if I am the first stop of the day would already give me an extra 30 minutes. At the end of the day, asking 5-10 contractors to be on standby with their schedule to accommodate one inspector is by default going to waste a lot of time. I think inspectors who understand that and do their best to be considerate of the time that is wasted and what it means to contractors' and their customers are appreciated by contractors. I know I always thank an inspector who gives me a narrow window. It's more than just a convenience, it often reduces stress dramatically and allows us to be more productive.
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I try not to make people suffer even though they might deserve it. That's not my job. Human nature being what it is, sometimes I lose my patience.

What I've learned is that it's not worth it. The guys who are jerks or incompetent typically won't learn a thing and continue to blame everyone else for their troubles. Let karma take care of it.

We get annoyed also. I've busted my ass to keep a time window only to find he's not there. I call him and he says he's ten minutes away and shows up 30 minutes later. I'm sorry, you just used up your allotted inspection time.

I do appreciate your attitude toward things and for realizing it's tough to fit it all in. Doing better than a four window is possible many times, just not every time.
 
kwired said:
My confusion here is if he will come after work, what is it that he does while he is at work? If it is electrical inspections isn't he still working when he comes?:huh:
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Some inspectors are also electrical contractors. Hull, MA for instance. He gets paid per inspection rather than a salary.

To offset conflicts of interest he is not allowed to do work to fix a failed inspection. So even if he throws an electrician off the job he has to tell the homeowner to find another electrician.
 
jaylectricity said:
Some inspectors are also electrical contractors. Hull, MA for instance. He gets paid per inspection rather than a salary.

To offset conflicts of interest he is not allowed to do work to fix a failed inspection. So even if he throws an electrician off the job he has to tell the homeowner to find another electrician.
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He can throw an electrician off the job? Inspectors can do that there?

I can't count the number of times I wish I could have done that.
 
sandsnow said:
He can throw an electrician off the job? Inspectors can do that there?

I can't count the number of times I wish I could have done that.
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Has to be an extreme case, I guess. This particular guy has chased certain companies out of town because they never pull permits.

I guess a more realistic example is an electrician who fails inspection and refuses to correct it because he already got paid.
 
jaylectricity said:
Has to be an extreme case, I guess. This particular guy has chased certain companies out of town because they never pull permits.

I guess a more realistic example is an electrician who fails inspection and refuses to correct it because he already got paid.
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That's why in NJ you're not required to make final payment to the contractor until the final inspection is passed. N.J.A.C. 13:45A-16.2(a)10.ii.
 
sandsnow said:
For OP question number two, the short answer is it depends.
One example.
My stops are done in geographical logical order. Typically I don't want to go back and forth across town.
So, you call me and I tell you between 9 and 10. I have a couple stops I can do before I get to you. So then one those stops calls and cancels. I get to the other stop and the guy runs out and says I'm sorry but I'm not ready. So now I'm going to be at your job at 8:30. If I have your phone number kitchen can call you, but that doesn't change that I'm locked into schedule. It's 8:30 or tomorrow. I might have time to swing by on the way back into the office, but my schedule is already getting shot to heck.

Other things that mess with me are:

Getting everything all laid out and my boss comes and says Fred didn't show up today, so here's five more calls.

Getting everything laid out and my boss wants to meet at some job and the only time is the time I just gave to you.

The job before yours is a complete disaster and it takes much longer than I had planned and I'm already running a little behind.

Some days are a complete disaster and I have to focus on just making every stop.
Some days are easy and I can even go back to your job in the afternoon.

I will take your number and call you when I'm on my way.

So that's a little bit of my world.
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Great answer. Don't forget the contractor that comes to the counter just as you're leaving with just a simple question. The fire that just broke out and the arson investigator want's you to stop by. The tree trimmer that just dropped a limb on the service drop to two houses. The fact that I'm the only electrical inspector for the city, not that we're a big city, but big enough. I understand that we all have issues, but to blame the inspectors is just wrong, two of the first three jobs I went by yesterday no one was on site and there was no access. So like stated before that kind of changed my timing for the day.
 
cowboyjwc said:
Great answer. Don't forget the contractor that comes to the counter just as you're leaving with just a simple question. The fire that just broke out and the arson investigator want's you to stop by. The tree trimmer that just dropped a limb on the service drop to two houses. The fact that I'm the only electrical inspector for the city, not that we're a big city, but big enough. I understand that we all have issues, but to blame the inspectors is just wrong, two of the first three jobs I went by yesterday no one was on site and there was no access. So like stated before that kind of changed my timing for the day.
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All good ones also.

So are you doing contract work now?
Retired from LA right?

Retiring myself on April 30th. Let the good times roll.
 
sandsnow said:
All good ones also.

So are you doing contract work now?
Retired from LA right?

Retiring myself on April 30th. Let the good times roll.
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Nope still with the City of Simi Valley, 25 years the 26th of this month. I'm to young to retire, I'll just be 57 this year so I've got a few more left. I may try and do thirty here and then see what happens. :)
 
sandsnow said:
Oops. Must have you confused with someone else.

City of Irvine. 30 years last October.

I heard the contractors are throwing a parade with a float featuring running me out of town on a rail in effigy.
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Not to rain on your parade, but they would probably do the same for any Irvine inspector that left. Thirty years, that's a good run. Was Chico there or was it the guy, who's name that I can't think of? Silver haired gentleman that wore his hair combed back. He did a lot of training at he IAEI meetings.
 
Chico worked the County of Orange.

Silver hair. Must mean Russ Helmick. Past IAEI international president.He was my boss until around ten years ago. He still comes around the Orange Empire meetings
 
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