- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Whoa!
Covered Up Receptacles In Use
- Thread starter bphgravity
- Start date
- Status
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Actually waiting for inspections in Central and South FL is a minor issue as far as building new houses. They should impose a moratorium on building houses until they can figure out something to do with the sewage that is contaminating the aquifer that that supplies their drinking, bathing, and cooking water.
Roger
Actually waiting for inspections in Central and South FL is a minor issue as far as building new houses. They should impose a moratorium on building houses until they can figure out something to do with the sewage that is contaminating the aquifer that that supplies their drinking, bathing, and cooking water.
Roger
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
My jurisdiction just approved 27 new positions in the building department. Thats all well and good except there are no persons to fill the positions, especially considering the rate inspectors are paid.
By the way, we are currently at 25-30 electrical inspections per day, per each of the the 4 electrical inspectors. This includes everything from water heater replacements all the way to a new Home Depot and Publix Supermarket.
Building permits have tripled in cost over the last 2 years here in SW Florida. The construction in all of Florida is stagering. Even before the hurricanes, it could take up to a month to get a plans review. And now after the hurricanes, there are lines out to front door of the building department and some inspections (roof inspections) are up to 6 months behind. Yes, that means some houses are going to sit for 6 months before the roof is approved.Originally posted by georgestolz:
How much are the building permits? They need to jack 'em up a touch and hire a couple more inspectors! Or somethin'!
My jurisdiction just approved 27 new positions in the building department. Thats all well and good except there are no persons to fill the positions, especially considering the rate inspectors are paid.
By the way, we are currently at 25-30 electrical inspections per day, per each of the the 4 electrical inspectors. This includes everything from water heater replacements all the way to a new Home Depot and Publix Supermarket.
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
We're all friends here. What do inspectors get paid down there?
What qualifications do you need?
Something about sewage water says "earnings potential" to me.
We're all friends here. What do inspectors get paid down there?
What qualifications do you need?
Something about sewage water says "earnings potential" to me.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Sad but true new ec inspectors start at around $ 14.00/ hr,We have helpers making that rate swing.Last month we had 1 subdivision that had 18 finals that were 2 to 9 days out.Builder and i called the chief told him the jist and he said have people there.That afternoon he called me said meet me at the first inspection.I was there with 2 2 man crews,we did 18 finals in 2 hours passed all,some needed tweaked but we passed all Not sure of what is to come but he offered me a job and I declined at $14/hr I couldn`t consider itI wonder what it will be in a year
Sad but true new ec inspectors start at around $ 14.00/ hr,We have helpers making that rate
swing.Last month we had 1 subdivision that had 18 finals that were 2 to 9 days out.Builder and i called the chief told him the jist and he said have people there.That afternoon he called me said meet me at the first inspection.I was there with 2 2 man crews,we did 18 finals in 2 hours passed all,some needed tweaked but we passed all Not sure of what is to come but he offered me a job and I declined at $14/hr I couldn`t consider itI wonder what it will be in a year pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Bob
a year ago I was an instructor, a couple of years before that I was in the field as an electrician and owner of an electrical contracting firm.
I am now on the "other side of the fence". What I am seeing and experiencing is disgusting, did I say it is disgusting?
The consumer is being taken advantage of in about 30-40% of the times I see work and that is work that has been filed for
Today I am especially disgusted, as I saw some horrible work that people are actually paying for.
Example:
I was called to go to a house at 5 XXX, and went to what I thought was 5 XXX, but actually was 2 XXX. The funny part is the contractor for both addresses was the same contractor.
As I was waiting for the contractor I saw the temporary for the job. A 200 amp service disconnect for a new service with 5-pigtail cord receptacles (12 AWG) directly terminated to the load side of the 200 amp disconnect, strung through the window which was pulled down tight to hold the pigtails in place (no GFCI protection). There was no grounding installed yet.
I stopped all of the workers, had the contractor disconnect the work and properly install the service. I also wrote up the violations. The GC was pissed off to say the least, as I told them they could not have the power turned back on until the inspection of the work.
Now I was not called to that job...should I have walked away?
When I see work that is hazardous to people, I will always stick my nose in it. This is what I meant when I said that some people need to be protected from themselves, even if they don't like it.
BTW- I also went to 5XXX and that job failed inspection, the 3rd time this week that contractor failed inspections...pretty poor if you ask me. His last job took 4 failed inspections before he could pass the job.
I am not talking about staple placement, but hazardous situations.
We had a worker killed last week because of poor working conditions, I call that murder for profit, unfortunately the courts don't see it that way!
Bob
a year ago I was an instructor, a couple of years before that I was in the field as an electrician and owner of an electrical contracting firm.
I am now on the "other side of the fence". What I am seeing and experiencing is disgusting, did I say it is disgusting?
The consumer is being taken advantage of in about 30-40% of the times I see work and that is work that has been filed for
Today I am especially disgusted, as I saw some horrible work that people are actually paying for.
Example:
I was called to go to a house at 5 XXX, and went to what I thought was 5 XXX, but actually was 2 XXX. The funny part is the contractor for both addresses was the same contractor.
As I was waiting for the contractor I saw the temporary for the job. A 200 amp service disconnect for a new service with 5-pigtail cord receptacles (12 AWG) directly terminated to the load side of the 200 amp disconnect, strung through the window which was pulled down tight to hold the pigtails in place (no GFCI protection). There was no grounding installed yet.
I stopped all of the workers, had the contractor disconnect the work and properly install the service. I also wrote up the violations. The GC was pissed off to say the least, as I told them they could not have the power turned back on until the inspection of the work.
Now I was not called to that job...should I have walked away?
When I see work that is hazardous to people, I will always stick my nose in it. This is what I meant when I said that some people need to be protected from themselves, even if they don't like it.
BTW- I also went to 5XXX and that job failed inspection, the 3rd time this week that contractor failed inspections...pretty poor if you ask me. His last job took 4 failed inspections before he could pass the job.
I am not talking about staple placement, but hazardous situations.
We had a worker killed last week because of poor working conditions, I call that murder for profit, unfortunately the courts don't see it that way!
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
My one BIL works for a large book chain, he's got a bunch of old shelving units they threw out. They were screwed together, but aren't now. I'd have to see it, but I'd be open to call screwing them together a safety item to protect customers from stupidity as much as attaching to the building.
I try to not get involved in these, but I'm failing to see a huge difference between this and my curio cabinet in the living room that's also screwed and strapped to the wall. It's 7 feet tall, and we get earthquakes. How about dressers in kids rooms that get screwed in to keep them from falling over when kds try to climb them?
My one BIL works for a large book chain, he's got a bunch of old shelving units they threw out. They were screwed together, but aren't now. I'd have to see it, but I'd be open to call screwing them together a safety item to protect customers from stupidity as much as attaching to the building.
allenwayne
Senior Member
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Our inspectors are required to spot check gfci operation of t poles on rough in inspections,if they found line sided taps that were a potential hazard I would say that is bonafide,but if driving down a road and saw someone standing on a roof and stopped to investigate if there was a job in progress that might need a permit.Well that is sticking thier nose in and taking away from the valuable limited time they have to do what they are there for.
I am not advocating work without a permit,but if they waste time looking for illegal non permitted jobs then they are taking away from the actual scope of work they get paid to do.Inspecting jobs called for inspection that are paid permits and under a time schedule.
Our inspectors are required to spot check gfci operation of t poles on rough in inspections,if they found line sided taps that were a potential hazard I would say that is bonafide,but if driving down a road and saw someone standing on a roof and stopped to investigate if there was a job in progress that might need a permit.Well that is sticking thier nose in and taking away from the valuable limited time they have to do what they are there for.
I am not advocating work without a permit,but if they waste time looking for illegal non permitted jobs then they are taking away from the actual scope of work they get paid to do.Inspecting jobs called for inspection that are paid permits and under a time schedule.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
"but if driving down a road and saw someone standing on a roof and stopped to investigate if there was a job in progress that might need a permit.Well that is sticking thier nose in and taking away from the valuable limited time they have to do what they are there for."
Allen
I agree and disagree
[ May 14, 2005, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
"but if driving down a road and saw someone standing on a roof and stopped to investigate if there was a job in progress that might need a permit.Well that is sticking thier nose in and taking away from the valuable limited time they have to do what they are there for."
Allen
I agree and disagree
[ May 14, 2005, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: pierre ]
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Pierre we have some basic differences in outlook. I have never felt that the inspectors job is protecting the consumer from what the inspector feels is shoddy work. IMO that is a 'buyer beware' issue. The inspectors in my area do not enforce job specifications either, only code issues.
I have always felt the inspectors job is to confirm compliance with the existing codes no more than that. unless I recognize you and invite you in.
Pierre we have some basic differences in outlook.
I have never felt that the inspectors job is protecting the consumer from what the inspector feels is shoddy work. IMO that is a 'buyer beware' issue. The inspectors in my area do not enforce job specifications either, only code issues.I have always felt the inspectors job is to confirm compliance with the existing codes no more than that.
unless I recognize you and invite you in.pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Bob
I do not think we really have too many differences of opinion on this subject, just a misunderstanding of what is being discussed.
1. I do not believe anyone can just drive by a property and look for violations/permits, etc...
What I am saying is that in the process of carrying out our duty as an inspector if we see a potentially hazardous situation we are morally and ethically responsible to report it.
2. Saving the world from itself is not my goal - helping this industry is extremely important to me and I will try to do what I can to protect this industry- if I step over my bounds (I do not do this intentionally) there is usually someone to let me know In a hurry!!!
Just as we all agree that an inspector should have experience in the field with this industry, I now of am the opinion that all electricians should be inspectors for two weeks
Bob
I do not think we really have too many differences of opinion on this subject, just a misunderstanding of what is being discussed.
1. I do not believe anyone can just drive by a property and look for violations/permits, etc...
What I am saying is that in the process of carrying out our duty as an inspector if we see a potentially hazardous situation we are morally and ethically responsible to report it.
2. Saving the world from itself is not my goal - helping this industry is extremely important to me and I will try to do what I can to protect this industry- if I step over my bounds (I do not do this intentionally) there is usually someone to let me know
In a hurry!!!Just as we all agree that an inspector should have experience in the field with this industry, I now of am the opinion that all electricians should be inspectors for two weeks
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
do you report these violations to the State?
How many violations can someone have before the State steps in and yanks license privledges??
This is one problem around here. There is a guy doing electrical work around here that somehow pased the limited exam. He has more violations on himself than all of the other electricians put together. But the inspector does not inform the State.
So, this guy continues to do work. At some point, the inspector will miss something that will lead to a fatality. And at that point he'll just say 'that wasn't like that when I was there. They must have changed or added it after I left'.
That line must be in the training manual. I hear it alot.
Example of recent phone call:
Me- Hi, inspector xxx. I was at job xxx to do some work and noticed that you issued a Final Inspection on the original job done by xxx. Why did it pass when all of the equipment bonding jumpers were left installed in all of the sub-panels.
inspector- 'That wasn't like that when I was there. They must have changed or added them after I left.'
Me- 'That manufacturer installs them, we use the same ones, so they were not added later. Someone missed this.'
inspector- 'I'm sure that wasn't like that when I was there'
That's just one. I have many more.
Pierre,
do you report these violations to the State?
How many violations can someone have before the State steps in and yanks license privledges??
This is one problem around here. There is a guy doing electrical work around here that somehow pased the limited exam. He has more violations on himself than all of the other electricians put together. But the inspector does not inform the State.
So, this guy continues to do work. At some point, the inspector will miss something that will lead to a fatality. And at that point he'll just say 'that wasn't like that when I was there. They must have changed or added it after I left'.
That line must be in the training manual. I hear it alot.
Example of recent phone call:
Me- Hi, inspector xxx. I was at job xxx to do some work and noticed that you issued a Final Inspection on the original job done by xxx. Why did it pass when all of the equipment bonding jumpers were left installed in all of the sub-panels.
inspector- 'That wasn't like that when I was there. They must have changed or added them after I left.'
Me- 'That manufacturer installs them, we use the same ones, so they were not added later. Someone missed this.'
inspector- 'I'm sure that wasn't like that when I was there'
That's just one. I have many more.
luke warmwater
Senior Member
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
In DE, there are 2 licenses: Limited(residential) and Master(everything).
With your above logic, do you agree that if an inspector sees an electrician known to him to have a limited license performing commercial work, he should inquire about it??
Pierre,
In DE, there are 2 licenses: Limited(residential) and Master(everything).
With your above logic, do you agree that if an inspector sees an electrician known to him to have a limited license performing commercial work, he should inquire about it??
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
We only have one type of electrical license here. I do not have enough experience to answer your question.
What is the usual procedure for this type of situation where you work?
There are low voltage installers in our area that are permitted to install low voltage wiring, if I see they are installing line voltage work, I will write a violation.
We only have one type of electrical license here. I do not have enough experience to answer your question.
What is the usual procedure for this type of situation where you work?
There are low voltage installers in our area that are permitted to install low voltage wiring, if I see they are installing line voltage work, I will write a violation.
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Ty
I understand your frustration... believe me.
In all the years I have been in this industry, I have not known one person to loose their license here.
The judge will usually side for the electrical contractor as he/she does not want to be responsible for removing his/her ability to make a living... I say hogwash.
Remember my company is only 1 year in business. We are trying to help the legimate contractors... they are begging us to do something about some of these other so called contractors.
We now have 2 cases in front of the licensing board for removal of licenses - in June. I am very curious as to how this will be resolved.
Yes I have put the above contractor's name to the licensing board for action, they have discussed suspending his license for six months.
In the past no one wanted to actually be the one to make a move to have these situations taken care of. Fear has cripled this kind of action.
Well I am not afraid of some controversy, and have been helping to set a tone for the contractors and their men to understand that some changes are forth coming. It is a slow go, but I see progress.
I can tell you that I enjoy the teaching end of my business much more than being an inspector... it is a poor paying job, that most people do not appreciate, and no friends to be made.
I hear more stories in one day than you can imagine
Ty
I understand your frustration... believe me.
In all the years I have been in this industry, I have not known one person to loose their license here.
The judge will usually side for the electrical contractor as he/she does not want to be responsible for removing his/her ability to make a living... I say hogwash.
Remember my company is only 1 year in business. We are trying to help the legimate contractors... they are begging us to do something about some of these other so called contractors.
We now have 2 cases in front of the licensing board for removal of licenses - in June. I am very curious as to how this will be resolved.
Yes I have put the above contractor's name to the licensing board for action, they have discussed suspending his license for six months.
In the past no one wanted to actually be the one to make a move to have these situations taken care of. Fear has cripled this kind of action.
Well I am not afraid of some controversy, and have been helping to set a tone for the contractors and their men to understand that some changes are forth coming. It is a slow go, but I see progress.
I can tell you that I enjoy the teaching end of my business much more than being an inspector... it is a poor paying job, that most people do not appreciate, and no friends to be made.
I hear more stories in one day than you can imagine
- Location
- Massachusetts
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
[ May 14, 2005, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
That is not the case here.
Go here to The Division of Professional Licensure and the Massachusetts Board of State Examiners of Electricians press release and here
[ May 14, 2005, 10:51 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]
- Location
- Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
- Occupation
- Service Manager
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
This conversation is over my head. I can't comprehend how an EC would willingly and knowlingly do things so wrong, that fatalities result.
I readily admit, some of my work kicks my butt, and I goof it up as often as I produce a piece of work that I can be proud of in a reasonable amount of time. That's just my honest opinion of myself.
But I can't understand intentionally creating a hazard, when it's usually as easy and fast to do the job correctly as it is to "cobble something together." If this is the case with the EC in question, then why issue a 6 month suspension? It seems more reasonable to forbid him to work again, or at least to wipe his logged experience off and force him through a mandatory apprenticeship, force him to relearn all he has learned to do wrong.
If it's stupidity or greed causing these safety issues, then he should be banned completely. If it's lack of education, then a mandatory "do-over" seems appropriate.
Maybe I'm just having a hard time visualizing what exactly is being done.
This conversation is over my head. I can't comprehend how an EC would willingly and knowlingly do things so wrong, that fatalities result.
I readily admit, some of my work kicks my butt, and I goof it up as often as I produce a piece of work that I can be proud of in a reasonable amount of time. That's just my honest opinion of myself.
But I can't understand intentionally creating a hazard, when it's usually as easy and fast to do the job correctly as it is to "cobble something together." If this is the case with the EC in question, then why issue a 6 month suspension? It seems more reasonable to forbid him to work again, or at least to wipe his logged experience off and force him through a mandatory apprenticeship, force him to relearn all he has learned to do wrong.
If it's stupidity or greed causing these safety issues, then he should be banned completely. If it's lack of education, then a mandatory "do-over" seems appropriate.
Maybe I'm just having a hard time visualizing what exactly is being done.
bphgravity
Senior Member
- Location
- Florida
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
Here in the State of Florida, about 20-30 electrical contractors lose or get their license suspended in anygiven year. Roughly 10-15 electrical inspectors are formally disciplined or have their license revoked. You can see these decisions and read about the cases here:
Contractors:Click on any of the dates here
Inspectors: Click on any of the dates here
Here in the State of Florida, about 20-30 electrical contractors lose or get their license suspended in anygiven year. Roughly 10-15 electrical inspectors are formally disciplined or have their license revoked. You can see these decisions and read about the cases here:
Contractors:Click on any of the dates here
Inspectors: Click on any of the dates here
sandsnow
Senior Member
- Location
- Southern California
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
My job is what my boss says it is, but there are other things to being an inspector here that you might find surprising
You'll love this, one of my functions is to pick up illegal signs taped to poles or whatever. You know like computer swap meet or garage sale. We used to enforce the leaf blower noise ordinance. Stop gardeners using leaf blowers to see if they had their operators card and their blower was certified.
[ May 15, 2005, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: sandsnow ]
My job is what my boss says it is, but there are other things to being an inspector here that you might find surprising
You'll love this, one of my functions is to pick up illegal signs taped to poles or whatever. You know like computer swap meet or garage sale. We used to enforce the leaf blower noise ordinance. Stop gardeners using leaf blowers to see if they had their operators card and their blower was certified.
[ May 15, 2005, 01:49 AM: Message edited by: sandsnow ]
pierre
Senior Member
- Location
- Westchester County, New York
Re: Covered Up Receptacles In Use
I have to let you guys know this:
I was in Mass. yesterday and drove by Bob's house.
He was in the process of wiring his pool - NM cable strung through the trees to a pool panel mounted to the side of his pool.
I have to let you guys know this:
I was in Mass. yesterday and drove by Bob's house.
He was in the process of wiring his pool - NM cable strung through the trees to a pool panel mounted to the side of his pool.
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