ceb58
Senior Member
- Location
- Raeford, NC
CSST bonding methods
- Thread starter hvacnut
- Start date
- Status
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
If an intersystem bonding termination is installed then anyone is allowed to hook it up. As long as access is external to electrical boxes then we can be absolved of doing it. The point I was making is that the bonding can happen anywhere on the piping not just as it enters the building although that is often the easiest place. I still have not found that info
Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
- Occupation
- Electrician
2009 IFGC: 310.1.1 CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system at the point where the gas service enters the building. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent.
2012 IFGC: 310.1.1 CSST. Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system. The bonding jumper shall connect to a metallic pipe or fitting between the point of delivery and the first downstream CSST fitting. The bonding jumper shall be not smaller than 6 AWG copper wire or equivalent. Gas piping systems that contain one or more segments of CSST shall be bonded in accordance with this section.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I've never had an inspector even check to see whether any gas system was bonded before and until one does require it of me, I'm not touching it. That being said...
How would you conform to the requirement in a situation where the house doesn't have any service equipment in it? I'm currently working in a house that has the service coming to the garage (up a hill and about 75-80 feet away) with feeders to the rear of the house in underground PVC and the gas coming from the front of the house. This would put the total run of a #6 at well over 75 feet total to get to the service equipment.
How would you conform to the requirement in a situation where the house doesn't have any service equipment in it? I'm currently working in a house that has the service coming to the garage (up a hill and about 75-80 feet away) with feeders to the rear of the house in underground PVC and the gas coming from the front of the house. This would put the total run of a #6 at well over 75 feet total to get to the service equipment.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
Yes so what is your point. I was talking NC amendment and I think what you posted has been posted already a few times. At least comment on why you posted those rule after quoting me.
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
It's a shame a product was produced that actually became a danger when installed. The NEC gas always bonded the gas pipe thru the branch circuit EGC but when gastite & Wardflex introduced their CSST it was unknown of the consequence lighting strikes had on thier products (pinholes). Now the Fuel gas code has written the bonding to be a min conductor size due to this mistake. The Wardflex CSST instructions below are similar to the gastite CSST instruction:
4.10 WARDFLEX? CSST ELECTRICAL BONDING
Direct bonding is required for all natural and LP gas piping systems incorporating WARDFLEX? CSST whether or not the piping system is connected to an electrically powered gas appliance. Direct bonding is included as part of the manufacture?s requirements for both single family and multi-family buildings. A person knowledgeable about electrical system design, local electrical code, and these requirements should specify the bonding for commercial applications. WARDFLEX? CSST installed inside or attached to the exterior of a building or structure shall be electrically continuous and directly bonded, by a qualified person, to the ground system of the building. The gas piping is considered to be directly bonded when installed in accordance with the following instructions:
? A bonding conductor is permanently and directly connected to the electrical service grounding system. This can be achieved through a connection to the electrical service equipment enclosure, the grounded conductor at the electrical service, the grounding electrode conductor (where of sufficient size) or to the one or more grounding electrodes used.
? A single bond connection is made to the building gas piping downstream of the utility meter or second stage regulator (LP systems), but near the gas service entrance (either indoors or outdoors) of the structure, or down stream of the gas meter of each individual housing unit within a multi-family structure. A ?daisy chain? configuration of the bonding conductor is permitted for multi-meter installations. A bonding connection shall not be made to the underground, natural gas utility service line or the underground supply line from a LP storage tank.
? The bonding conductor is not smaller than a #6 AWG copper wire or equivalent. The bonding conductor is installed and protected in accordance with the NEC.
? The bonding conductor is attached in an approved manner in accordance with NEC and the point of attachment for the bonding conductor is accessible.
? Bonding/grounding clamp used is listed to UL 467 or other acceptable national standards.
? The bonding clamp is attached at one point within the piping system to a segment of rigid pipe, a pipe component such as a nipple, fitting, manifold, or CSST fitting provided it is manufactured with an appropriate and Code listed material. The bonding clamp must be attached such that metal to metal contact is achieved with the steel pipe component. Remove any paint or applied coating on the pipe surface beneath the clamp. See Figure 4.41 for guidance. The corrugated stainless steel tubing portion of the gas piping system shall not be used as the point of attachment of the bonding clamp at any location along its length.
Gastite has announced they will discontinue the Gastite CSST product as they have produced only FlashSheild CSST. FlashSheild CSST only requires the bonding per sized by the branch circuit supply the appliance.
4.10 Electrical Bonding of Gastite?/FlashShield? CSST
a) Unlike Gastite?, there are no additional bonding requirements for FlashShield? imposed by the manufacturer?s installation instructions. FlashShield? is to be bonded in accordance with the National Electrical Code NFPA 70 Article 250.104 in the same manner as the minimum requirements for rigid metal piping. However, installers must always adhere to any local requirements that may conflict with these instructions.
Technically the electrician has done his job and the IFGC requires the mechanical contractor to install a larger bonding conductor & the mechanical inspector to enforce the code -- This is now all messed up IMO.
Mgraw
Senior Member
- Location
- Opelousas, Louisiana
- Occupation
- Electrician
My point is IFGC changed in the 2012 edition. NC GAS CODE 2012 is actually IFGC 2009. According to the NC code listed on ICC there is no amendment to 310.1.1
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Even if your GEC happens to be required to be 3/0 copper but you only have a 1/2 or 3/4 inch gas line supplying equipment with no more then 20 amp branch circuit supplying it?
Shouldn't be the electrical inspector that checks this IMO. A bond to gas piping is required by NEC but can be the EGC supplying the equipment the gas connects to for the most part, additional bonding requirements of the CSST is not the elecrician's problem IMO it is the CSST installer's problem, it is part of the installation instructions, getting their bonding jumper into an electric panel is the elecricians problem - problem solved by providing an intersystem bonding terminal at older installations, and you should already have one at a new installation.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
Ok, but according to the instruction posted earlier, there needs to be a #6 AWG bond to the service equipment for CSST, and the run can not be longer than 75 feet. Also, Dennis mentioned that you can't bond to a sub panel. In the house I'm working in currently, there is no way to conform to any one of these requirements without violating one of the other ones. Probably it would just get bonded to a water pipe somewhere, but that doesn't fulfill any of the requirements.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Corrugated stainless steel tubing (CSST) gas piping systems shall be bonded to the electrical service grounding electrode system
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
They maybe need to change instructions to include landing this at the intersystem bond terminal - it is there for other systems to tie into.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I understand all this. I'm just challenging with an unusual example of a house here in Lancaster which has the service coming in to a garage on one street where the main 200A panel is located, then running underground to the house where the water and gas come in from another street. The distance between the incoming service where the intersystem bonding terminal could be and the house where the gas enters is more than 75 feet (that number is called out as a max. in the CSST instructions quoted before) so to run a bond back to the service you're violating the CSST instructions. If you run a bond to the sub panel in the house where the gas enters, you're not bonding it to the service and violating both the CSST instructions and the NEC. The water pipe may or may not be a grounding electrode. If it is, there would have to be a separate #4 running back to the garage in addition to the four wires feeding the sub panel at the house (I did not see a separate #4 running back) so I would treat the water system as being bonded to the ground, but not used as an electrode so you can't bond to that and be in compliance.
Kwired - I'm not sure what prohibits using the intersystem bonding terminal to land the required #6 per either the NEC or the wording in the CSST instructions as it's designed to be used as general access to the "electrical service grounding electrode system." The only barrier in my example is that the intersystem bonding terminal would be located more that 75 feet from where the gas enters the house and bonding to it would violate the CSST installation instructions.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
First I have to admit I have not read any specific product instructions or anything from fuel/gas codes, but 75 feet is not very far especially when you get out of dwelling applications. Makes sense that they possibly would want increased conductor size if it needs to be longer though, but I guess we do not have anything in NEC requiring larger grounding electrode conductor for long runs either.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Now I'm lost. So you want MORE paralleled paths?
Treat the house as a separate structure. If you ran a wire back to the first building I would fail you. The bond needs to be at the house, home, 2nd structure or what ever else you call it.
Take a deep breath. I think that you are over thinking this.
PetrosA
Senior Member
- Location
- Lancaster, Pennsylvania
I probably am overthinking this. I've just never seen anything like this property.
mwm1752
Senior Member
- Location
- Aspen, Colo
I posted the specific product instructions for wardflex & flashshield
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
Crossing the street to supply a separate building from one service is maybe a little unusual but is still a feeder to a separate building or structure. I think the confusion here is the gas code and/or product instructions mention electric service but are not necessarily using that term with same definition as NEC uses it, but instead mean whatever is the main electric supply to the building.
- Status