Current flowing to ground

[Strathead]

Unless there is bonded parallel paths to other services then it can simply be neutral current flowing over a parallel path. Metal water piping is one example with low enough resistance it could be carrying a significant amount of neutral current even though nothing is wrong.

But he had all three GEC’s coming in with current on them.

 

[jaggedben]

So?

So you have been arguing that current on the GEC is a problem, but if ground resistance is low then it happens naturally and is code compliant.

THAT is actually my point since the beginning. If you are measuring current flow on a GEC with standard measuring equipment as the OP was, you have a problem. Either a fault loose neutral or both.

Or it's just low ground resistance, either because a water pipe or ... low ground resistance.

But he had all three GEC’s coming in with current on them.

Assuming the meter readings were precise - (we still don't even know if his meter reads hundredths of an amp or just rounds off) then that seems like evidence of low ground resistance.

 

[ggunn]

I have dry sandy soil ... I water my ground rod every week, nothing growing yet ?

Can you propagate ground rods from cuttings, or do they produce seeds?

 

[don_resqcapt19]

An electrical engineer friend of mine lives in an area close to a swamp. He drove an 8' ground rod in an isolated area away from any other electrodes. At 120 volts, he could flow 31 amps through the earth.
There are huge differences in the impedance of electrodes back to the secondary neutral of the utility transformer. What my friend has is on the rare side.
When I taught grounding, I often had the class drive a remote rod and did the same experiment...the most current I ever had was 4.8 amps. The lowest was too low for my meter to read.

 

[electrofelon]

An electrical engineer friend of mine lives in an area close to a swamp. He drove an 8' ground rod in an isolated area away from any other electrodes. At 120 volts, he could flow 31 amps through the earth.
There are huge differences in the impedance of electrodes back to the secondary neutral of the utility transformer. What my friend has is on the rare side.
When I taught grounding, I often had the class drive a remote rod and did the same experiment...the most current I ever had was 4.8 amps. The lowest was too low for my meter to read.

One of the few times I actually did that test I got around 4 amps to a single rod. I was very surprised how high that was as the conditions didn't seem particularly noteworthy.

 

[cmoreno58]

A good SERVICE PANEL GROUND and CLEAN ROMEX connections will help - - -

I think the original electrician did the following when wiring the Electric Panel :

A] ran a braided #6 from the UFER ground to the panel, connected to screw 3.

B] ran a braided #6 from the copper water pipe to the neutral strip

C] ran a braided #6 from the metal GAS PIPE to the neutral strip

D] mixed the ROMEX bare-ground wires and the white-neutral wires on the neutral strip.

NOTE - see the attached diagram and refer to numbers 1, 2, 3, 4

Need to verify that screw 3 makes direct connection to screw 4 (the neutral strip)

Screw 2 cinches the NEUTRAL from the service drop.

Screw 3 cinches the COPPER cable from the UFER ground concrete foundation REBAR.

The Ground strip with Screw 1 is supposed to be just for bare ground wires from the ROMEX lines;
and there should be a metal bolt from the Ground strip to the Metal of the Electric Panel box.

The Neutral strip with Screw 4 is supposed to be just for white neutral wires from the ROMEX lines;
but if the Neutral strip is “floating on plastic”, then there should be a short BARE COPPER #4
wire from the left GROUND strip to the right NEUTRAL strip (to bond NEUTRAL to GROUND)

 

[electrofelon]

.

The Ground strip with Screw 1 is supposed to be just for bare ground wires from the ROMEX lines;
and there should be a metal bolt from the Ground strip to the Metal of the Electric Panel box.

The Neutral strip with Screw 4 is supposed to be just for white neutral wires from the ROMEX lines;
but if the Neutral strip is “floating on plastic”, then there should be a short BARE COPPER #4
wire from the left GROUND strip to the right NEUTRAL strip (to bond NEUTRAL to GROUND)

Since this is a service, "neutrals and grounds" are common and it doesn't matter which bar they go on.

 

[GoldDigger]

Since this is a service, "neutrals and grounds" are common and it doesn't matter which bar they go.

FWIW, it may be allowable to put two "grounds" under one screw (if the bar listing allows it.) But you may never put two neutrals under one screw.

 

[B&V Construction]

A good SERVICE PANEL GROUND and CLEAN ROMEX connections will help - - -

I think the original electrician did the following when wiring the Electric Panel :

A] ran a braided #6 from the UFER ground to the panel, connected to screw 3.

B] ran a braided #6 from the copper water pipe to the neutral strip

C] ran a braided #6 from the metal GAS PIPE to the neutral strip

D] mixed the ROMEX bare-ground wires and the white-neutral wires on the neutral strip.

NOTE - see the attached diagram and refer to numbers 1, 2, 3, 4

Need to verify that screw 3 makes direct connection to screw 4 (the neutral strip)

Screw 2 cinches the NEUTRAL from the service drop.

Screw 3 cinches the COPPER cable from the UFER ground concrete foundation REBAR.

The Ground strip with Screw 1 is supposed to be just for bare ground wires from the ROMEX lines;
and there should be a metal bolt from the Ground strip to the Metal of the Electric Panel box.

The Neutral strip with Screw 4 is supposed to be just for white neutral wires from the ROMEX lines;
but if the Neutral strip is “floating on plastic”, then there should be a short BARE COPPER #4
wire from the left GROUND strip to the right NEUTRAL strip (to bond NEUTRAL to GROUND)

A good SERVICE PANEL GROUND and CLEAN ROMEX connections will help - - -

I think the original electrician did the following when wiring the Electric Panel :

A] ran a braided #6 from the UFER ground to the panel, connected to screw 3.

B] ran a braided #6 from the copper water pipe to the neutral strip

C] ran a braided #6 from the metal GAS PIPE to the neutral strip

D] mixed the ROMEX bare-ground wires and the white-neutral wires on the neutral strip.

NOTE - see the attached diagram and refer to numbers 1, 2, 3, 4

Need to verify that screw 3 makes direct connection to screw 4 (the neutral strip)

Screw 2 cinches the NEUTRAL from the service drop.

Screw 3 cinches the COPPER cable from the UFER ground concrete foundation REBAR.

The Ground strip with Screw 1 is supposed to be just for bare ground wires from the ROMEX lines;
and there should be a metal bolt from the Ground strip to the Metal of the Electric Panel box.

The Neutral strip with Screw 4 is supposed to be just for white neutral wires from the ROMEX lines;
but if the Neutral strip is “floating on plastic”, then there should be a short BARE COPPER #4
wire from the left GROUND strip to the right NEUTRAL strip (to bond NEUTRAL to GROUND)

The bonding screw is fully engaged, which ties the left and right bars via an aluminum strap running underneath the busses. No need for a jumper. The bonding screw also engages the cabinet. As I mentioned initially it's not the tidiest panel but there is no issue with interspersed grounds and neutrals other than aesthetics.

This house is in a recent extension off an existing development and by the time they built these houses they had cut over to PEX / PVC... so no metal water pipes. Not sure about the gas piping. House is piped with CSST internally. I'll have to look for a bonding clamp near the meter. But I can say that there's no iron gas pipe below that panel. All three GECs are heading to the Ufer electrode.

 

[kwired]

The bonding screw is fully engaged, which ties the left and right bars via an aluminum strap running underneath the busses. No need for a jumper. The bonding screw also engages the cabinet. As I mentioned initially it's not the tidiest panel but there is no issue with interspersed grounds and neutrals other than aesthetics.

This house is in a recent extension off an existing development and by the time they built these houses they had cut over to PEX / PVC... so no metal water pipes. Not sure about the gas piping. House is piped with CSST internally. I'll have to look for a bonding clamp near the meter. But I can say that there's no iron gas pipe below that panel. All three GECs are heading to the Ufer electrode.

there is a bus bar that goes horizontally across at the top. It passes underneath the supply lugs of the main breaker, has the main grounded lug and an accessory lug mounted in the center portion and you can see a screw on each side that connects to the branch neutral buses. The bonding screw bonds the cabinet only and has no effect on whether either side is independent of the other. There is other manufacturer's panels that do have capability of removing the bus between each side and isolating them but none of the QO or Homeline load centers are that way.

Those square holes in that horizontal bus at the top are for optional lugs. If you would have a load center with feed through lugs those positions do have additional lugs factory mounted on them. They have very limited catalog numbers however that have feed through lugs so not too common to see them used unless you happen to use one with feed through lugs.

 

[ptonsparky]

Nothing wrong with 3 GEC going to the Ufer. IMO, nothing gained by it, other than someone profited by the sale of Cu.

 

[mtnelect]

I always wondered if there was a method available to access all that wasted energy, and who is paying for it ?

 

[electrofelon]

I always wondered if there was a method available to access all that wasted energy, and who is paying for it ?

we have been through this, there is no wasted energy. In fact there is less wasted energy when there is a parallel path.