- Location
- Illinois
- Occupation
- retired electrician
Re: Current on waterpipe
bj,
How much current is on the water pipe with your main shut off?
Don
bj,
How much current is on the water pipe with your main shut off?
Don
Current on waterpipe
- Thread starter bjohnson
- Start date
- Status
bjohnson
Member
- Location
- North dakota
Re: Current on waterpipe
It varies, but typically anywhere from 3 to 5 amps. The first time the city Inspector was over it was initially at 0.2 amps (figures) But then jumped back up to 3 amps.
It varies, but typically anywhere from 3 to 5 amps. The first time the city Inspector was over it was initially at 0.2 amps (figures) But then jumped back up to 3 amps.
jxofaltrds
Inspector Mike®
- Location
- Mike P. Columbus Ohio
- Occupation
- ESI, PI, RBO
Re: Current on waterpipe
BJ
If you want to stir things up more, I will bet that your local AHJ has adopted some NEC.
By doing so the have taken judicial notice.
They are the ones "giving" you the objectional current.
IMHO since they are "experts" have them fix the problem.
Mike P.
BJ
If you want to stir things up more, I will bet that your local AHJ has adopted some NEC.
By doing so the have taken judicial notice.
They are the ones "giving" you the objectional current.
IMHO since they are "experts" have them fix the problem.
Mike P.
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Current on waterpipe
BJ, the only reason neutral would be coming from the transformer would be if it is primary neutral taking a path through the house and water pipes to get back to the substation. Although this source is a suspect in the stray voltage controversy in rural farm areas, I do not think I have seen it in the residential work I have done.
You can find out with measurements. If all neutral is generated by load imbalances in the homes connected to this transformer and to this water system, you can measure at each service in the way I described, with a clamp-on ammeter.
Let's assume this just involves two residences. Open the main on your house. Measure the neutral amps (if it fluctuates during the measurement time you can use a meter that gives you the average).
As simultaneously as possible measure the neutral at your neighbor's service; the amount on the service neutral and the amount going to the pipe. Also measure the resultant of the hots by clamping around both at the same time. This resultant should equal the total neutral. If so, it shows that the neutral originated at that service. Do you get the idea? Currents always have to add up.
So I think it unlikely that you can pin this on the POCO. It is a NEC grounding requirement (which you are allowed to remedy). POCO is involved only in making sure their neutral connections are clean and tight.
Karl
BJ, the only reason neutral would be coming from the transformer would be if it is primary neutral taking a path through the house and water pipes to get back to the substation. Although this source is a suspect in the stray voltage controversy in rural farm areas, I do not think I have seen it in the residential work I have done.
You can find out with measurements. If all neutral is generated by load imbalances in the homes connected to this transformer and to this water system, you can measure at each service in the way I described, with a clamp-on ammeter.
Let's assume this just involves two residences. Open the main on your house. Measure the neutral amps (if it fluctuates during the measurement time you can use a meter that gives you the average).
As simultaneously as possible measure the neutral at your neighbor's service; the amount on the service neutral and the amount going to the pipe. Also measure the resultant of the hots by clamping around both at the same time. This resultant should equal the total neutral. If so, it shows that the neutral originated at that service. Do you get the idea? Currents always have to add up.
So I think it unlikely that you can pin this on the POCO. It is a NEC grounding requirement (which you are allowed to remedy). POCO is involved only in making sure their neutral connections are clean and tight.
Karl
bjohnson
Member
- Location
- North dakota
Re: Current on waterpipe
Karl: The POCO transformer feeding back through the house was the city electrical inspector's idea. I agree with you that it's far more likely to be another home. But...the inspector seems to be interested so I'll go with his idea.
Mike: I didn't stir them up intentionally. It just sort of went that way when I mentioned it to the city electrical inspector. I think he was interested in something new.
Well, that pretty much settles it....thanks all for your input and letting me bounce some ideas off you. I'm probably going to go with the 'cut the hole in the basement floor 10 feet plus from the waterpipe entrance into the house and install the dielectric couple' plan. That won't be until spring though. Plus it might be interesting to see where the city inspector takes this whole thing.
I'll keep you posted if anything new comes up. Thanks again for your help.
[ February 28, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: bjohnson ]
Karl: The POCO transformer feeding back through the house was the city electrical inspector's idea. I agree with you that it's far more likely to be another home. But...the inspector seems to be interested so I'll go with his idea.
Mike: I didn't stir them up intentionally.
It just sort of went that way when I mentioned it to the city electrical inspector. I think he was interested in something new. Well, that pretty much settles it....thanks all for your input and letting me bounce some ideas off you. I'm probably going to go with the 'cut the hole in the basement floor 10 feet plus from the waterpipe entrance into the house and install the dielectric couple' plan. That won't be until spring though. Plus it might be interesting to see where the city inspector takes this whole thing.
I'll keep you posted if anything new comes up. Thanks again for your help.
[ February 28, 2003, 04:21 PM: Message edited by: bjohnson ]
Re: Current on waterpipe
I'm new to this Mike Holt message board thing but I have to say, this is great. You guys seem to have a clue about the electrical field. Since I'm new to the trade (1998), Someone please help me!!! Can anyone direct me to a solid information source about this ICC - SBCCI transition. I was about to take the masters' test from SBCCI but now there supposed to be ICC. But it seems that quite a few Texas jurisdictions are no longer participating with SBCCI or ICC. Please help...
I'm new to this Mike Holt message board thing but I have to say, this is great. You guys seem to have a clue about the electrical field. Since I'm new to the trade (1998), Someone please help me!!! Can anyone direct me to a solid information source about this ICC - SBCCI transition. I was about to take the masters' test from SBCCI but now there supposed to be ICC. But it seems that quite a few Texas jurisdictions are no longer participating with SBCCI or ICC. Please help...
- Location
- Bremerton, Washington
- Occupation
- Master Electrician
Re: Current on waterpipe
BJ is there a water meter for the water service? Where is it at?
BJ is there a water meter for the water service? Where is it at?
bjohnson
Member
- Location
- North dakota
Re: Current on waterpipe
Yep, there's a water meter. It's located roughly 3 feet after the waterpipe enters the people space.
Yep, there's a water meter. It's located roughly 3 feet after the waterpipe enters the people space.
karl riley
Senior Member
Re: Current on waterpipe
BJ, it will be interesting to see how your POCO rep proceeds. Whatever his hunch (hypothesis) it has to be followed by a measurement strategy to confirm/deny. I would be interested to know what measurements he takes and what he concludes from them.
Karl
BJ, it will be interesting to see how your POCO rep proceeds. Whatever his hunch (hypothesis) it has to be followed by a measurement strategy to confirm/deny. I would be interested to know what measurements he takes and what he concludes from them.
Karl
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