Customer won't pay bill

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Sonny Boy said:
POCO requirement is 18 inches wide. Hard to find a bucket that's 18" wide.



$1800 including taxes, excavating and backfilling.
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You were to cheap to start with. Price has little to do with weither someone will be happy with your price or not or weither they will pay you or not.
 
bradleyelectric said:
You were to cheap to start with.
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I said I'm just starting out. Gotta pay the bills and put food on the table.

How much would you have charged?

bradleyelectric said:
Price has little to do with weither someone will be happy with your price or not or weither they will pay you or not.
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The customer wasn't happy with the price.
 
My advice to anyone at a "bargaining table..." If a customer isnt happy with your price, explain in further detail what it is you have to do, explain the costs of whatever material is required to complete the project, etc. If they still want to haggle, walk away. I have done this myself. There is no point working for free, otherwise you might as well stay home and watch TV. Why of spending hours or days working on a job with no profit when you can beat the pavement and find someone willing to pay you what your worth? Another word of advice...it's all about presentation. Remember, when you are giving a bid to someone, you must cease from being an electrician and become a salesman.
 
bstoin said:
Remember, when you are giving a bid to someone, you must cease from being an electrician and become a salesman.
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This is very true. Just like a saleman I try to find out how much the customer is willing to spend before starting a job ( or can afford to spend ). This has saved me many times. You wouldn't believe the low job cost that I have gotten from customers as far as to what they were willing to spend. Things like 3K to rewire a whole house. If this is what they think then you bid them good day and head on down the road.

If you think you can do a job for $1800.00 then you give an estimate of $2500.00 and bill for $2450.00. There is no reason for the customer to complain because you are under the estimate.

Added advantage: There is a little room to negoiate before getting to actual cost.
 
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growler said:
This is very true. Just like a saleman I try to find out how much the customer is willing to spend before starting a job ( or can afford to spend ). This has saved me many times. You wouldn't believe the low job cost that I have gotten from customers as far as to what they were willing to spend. Things like 3K to rewire a whole house. If this is what they think then you bid them good day and head on down the road.

If you think you can do a job for $1800.00 then you give an estimate of $2500.00 and bill for $2450.00. There is no reason for the customer to complain because you are under the estimate.

Added advantage: There is a little room to negoiate before getting to actual cost.
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Yes...we are on the same page. When I give someone a bid price, it's usually just a little bit high. I do this purposely because 1) covers myself for a slight mistake (forgot to add the breaker in the price, etc) 2) when I give them the final bill it's a little less than what I had quoted them. I let them know that "it wasn't as bad as I thought it would be." You wouldnt believe how many referrals and how much repeat business I get doing this! Instead of being viewed as a criminal ("sorry Mr Smith, I underbid your project, you need to pay me an extra hundred bucks") I come out the best thing since sliced bread ("guess what Mr Smith! I erroneously gave you a price that was too high, please make the check for $600 NOT $700")
 
Excellent advice and....

Excellent advice and....

wisdom.

I do know that the next time I do an underground installation the customer will be responsible for the excavating. Or, he/she will sign my contact that says they will abide by the cost of me getting it setup and done.

I'm learning to be more of a salesman when it comes to bidding jobs.
 
Lien Notice

Lien Notice

I don't know the laws in your area. In Illinois we send a mechanics lien notice within 90 days after we leave job if we are not paid. My contracts are 30 days and I send them at 45. It's really two copies, one to the guy who hired you and one to the owner of the building. Have them notorized, sealed, and sent registered mail. I have gotten many angry responses, but I always get responses. You did have a contract, it was verbal. Secondly, be a real pain in the ass. I am unrelenting. If he gave you a check for the deposit you know where he banks. Find a reason to call his banker. When the banker hangs upo with you, he'll call him. If a builder give me BS, I ask the name of the person responsible for paying them. Then I call them. If the story doesn't check out it gives me somewhere to go.
A lot of my friends tell me that I just P***-off my customers. I say so what? What am I losing, someone who doesn't pay? Who cares. Get paid. Thats the only reason we take jobs in the first place, isn't it?
 
ruferil said:
Small claims court is relatively simple and inexpensive. No lawyers can be involved so cost is really low. I believe verbal contracts can be just as binding as written ones. Might be worth a shot. Once the guy receives the court papers, he may be more willing to settle up. Never know what skeletons he has in his closet.
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I believe in Maryland as long as there was a witness, verbal contracts are binding, but no witness.... no contract.
 
I used to work in the automobile business and one tip that my boss gave me was to NEVER lower your price without a reason. Tell the customer that just offers you $100 less for the car, "OK, I can take another $100 off, but I can't include the floormats (or the full tank of gas, or somthing else) for that price" and stick to it. Otherwise the customer will almost always come back and ask for even more. Most customers have not got a clue when it comes to a "good price". They assume that anything that you charge is 100% profit and will never be satisfied unless you convince them that they will have to give up something for the price to go any lower.
 
benn there

benn there

ruferil said:
Small claims court is relatively simple and inexpensive. No lawyers can be involved so cost is really low. I believe verbal contracts can be just as binding as written ones. Might be worth a shot. Once the guy receives the court papers, he may be more willing to settle up. Never know what skeletons he has in his closet.
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If that not working take the meter ! I installed a hot tub for a guy like this .and the same thing happend . he called the cops they made him pay .
 
Customer Won't Pay Bill.

Customer Won't Pay Bill.

Get your attorney to file a lien on the property. Even without the contract, they should be able to provide a notice of furnishing to the owner of the property, and subsequently, file the lien to protect your money. I would not have any further discussions with your customer, until the lien is filed, than you will have some ammuntion to go back at them with. Sounds like your customer is just dialoging with you to get you past the 90 day last day worked mark. File the lien immediately!
 
First and foremost, you always write up a contract with a price, wether it's a set price or agreed t&m. That's your ticket to getting paid, or putting a lien on his property.
You tell the customer that it won't be inspected or energized utill he pays in full. Also, you NEVER reduce your price if the customer complains, because then your telling them that you tried to over charge them!!
 
oldno7 said:
First and foremost, you always write up a contract with a price, wether it's a set price or agreed t&m. That's your ticket to getting paid, or putting a lien on his property.
You tell the customer that it won't be inspected or energized utill he pays in full. Also, you NEVER reduce your price if the customer complains, because then your telling them that you tried to over charge them!!
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As an inspector in New York, I can tell you that here, an electrical permit is attached to the property, not the electrician.

If the property owner calls for an inspection...I am bound to provide such.

So......using the "no inspection until I get paid" routine is a minor bluff that may or may not work.

Bottom line....

Document Everything!

Get a substantial down payment.

If the customer is unwilling or unable to do so....it should raise some neck hairs.

Never.....I say never sell yourself short!

Your prices should reflect your comittment to your profession and your integrity.

When we allow people who are often professionals at "bargaining down the price" to do so.....we are compromising our integrity!

If "Joe So and So" would do it for less money....then by all means hire him!

I know that trying to establish one's self is tough...but take the obstacles you encounter and learn from them.

'nuff said!
 
nysprkdude said:
As an inspector in New York, I can tell you that here, an electrical permit is attached to the property, not the electrician. If the property owner calls for an inspection...I am bound to provide such.
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So you are telling me that if the electrician is not ready, even though it is their license on the line, and insurance. You have to inspect it? You may not pass it. Around here there were a few GCs calling in rough-in inspections on our projects. We stopped that circus fast.

It is my business, it is my permit, it is my license and I will call in for an inspection when I am good and ready, and not one minute sooner. Call one in on me and I will call the inspector and tell them to turn around and go back or red tag it, because it is not ready for inspection. Then I will invoice the person who called in the inspection before it was ready.
 
I agree with dduffee 260. The license holder is responsible for the proper installation of the work, and therefore should make the final determination as to when the installation is ready for inspection. If the job fails an inspection for not being ready, who is responsible for the re-inspection fee? I doubt that it goes to the property address. I think you shoud re-evaluate your policy of who can call in an inspection.
 
A verbal contract can be enforced as long as there is a "meeting of the minds". Both parties have to have knowlege of the scope, and cost. It would seem to me that a deposit, and the authorization to start was a "meeting of the minds."
 
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