Customers lie, part deux

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If we get burned in the way many are talking about here, then it is our own fault, or our own choice. Disagreements like those listed above have been going on since electricity began being installed in houses. If you don't make sure you have written documentation and proper exclusions, then shame on you. If you decide to roll over on something that is standard, like the microwave, then that is also on you. Lowes lists their largest microwave as 1200 watts. If a customer installs a combination convection/microwave, they can pay to get a larger circuit, or buy a microwave. Or I can decide that the GC is important enough to me to roll over. Still on me.
 
For the last year or so we require an appliance model number before pulling any wire in kitchen remodels.

There had been a couple that the microwave changed from a standard 20a 120v to a 30a 240v convection type.

And it seems cook tops and ovens have reversed amperage requirements, for the longest time the oven draw was more than the cook top, but with induction cook tops that's not the case.
 
Isn't there some way one can put into contract language something like this:

"residences wired for residential use items. Commercial or industrial cookware, or other similarly non-residential items, are not covered by standard rewire, unless notified in writing beforehand".

If your customer decides he wants an instant pizza warmer ala 7-11, or a $11,000 espresso machine, that should be spec'd up front. Not fishing in 10/3 after the fact.
 
JFletcher said:
Isn't there some way one can put into contract language something like this:

"residences wired for residential use items. Commercial or industrial cookware, or other similarly non-residential items, are not covered by standard rewire, unless notified in writing beforehand".

If your customer decides he wants an instant pizza warmer ala 7-11, or a $11,000 espresso machine, that should be spec'd up front. Not fishing in 10/3 after the fact.
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Worse yet they get that commercial appliance and it is three phase and you have single phase service:blink:

Had that happen more often on small restaurants, and purchasing of used equipment though.
 
A few homeowners think ahead but not many. They have no concept of what we have to do and how it is major surgery to backtrack. I once had a woman ask if her remodeled kitchen would have the countertop devices mounted up under the cabinets. This as I was putting devices in as usual. I said "no, too late".
 
kwired said:
Worse yet they get that commercial appliance and it is three phase and you have single phase service:blink:

Had that happen more often on small restaurants, and purchasing of used equipment though.
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I've seen lots of small businesses without 3 phase. Another thing the layman knows nothing about and doesn't think to inquire about. BTW, that was another issue I had to work with in the restaurant with the irate owner. They had 240 3 phase and we were installing several 120 volt appliance ckts. I got flak from him about me showing a helper how to ID the high leg and skip it for 120's.
 
My brother taught me that customers aren't stupid, they don't lie, and they're never wrong. They just speak a different language.

Anyway, he ran a national call center and probably knows more about customer service than I do, but when working on a home, you also need to ask all homeowners or at least the handy one.

We were doing some wiring and asked about access to the attic above the garage, and we were told there wasn't any. So we got permission and cut through the drywall to make our own crawlway. Once in the attic, we found a full-sized attic door that opened into the back of an upstairs closet. When the other homeowner got home, he was irate that we'd cut a hole in his garage ceiling, of course.
 
Mark A. said:
My brother taught me that customers aren't stupid, they don't lie, and they're never wrong. They just speak a different language.

We were doing some wiring and asked about access to the attic above the garage, and we were told there wasn't any. So we got permission and cut through the drywall to make our own crawlway. Once in the attic, we found a full-sized attic door that opened into the back of an upstairs closet. When the other homeowner got home, he was irate that we'd cut a hole in his garage ceiling, of course.
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So the language the first homeowner spoke was "Duhhhhhhh".
 
Coppersmith said:
So the language the first homeowner spoke was "Duhhhhhhh".
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Scott Adams, of Dilbert fame, had a contest to find a word that members of Dogbert's New World Order (technocrats) could use to make fun of others without them realizing it.
The winner was "in-duhh-vidual".

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
 
Mark A. said:
My brother taught me that customers aren't stupid, they don't lie, and they're never wrong. They just speak a different language.

Anyway, he ran a national call center and probably knows more about customer service than I do, but when working on a home, you also need to ask all homeowners or at least the handy one.

We were doing some wiring and asked about access to the attic above the garage, and we were told there wasn't any. So we got permission and cut through the drywall to make our own crawlway. Once in the attic, we found a full-sized attic door that opened into the back of an upstairs closet. When the other homeowner got home, he was irate that we'd cut a hole in his garage ceiling, of course.
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After he'd given you verbal permission?
Would make you cynical about taking anyone's word on a project like that.
 
GoldDigger said:
Scott Adams, of Dilbert fame, had a contest to find a word that members of Dogbert's New World Order (technocrats) could use to make fun of others without them realizing it.
The winner was "in-duhh-vidual".
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That's great.

Besoeker said:
After he'd given you verbal permission?
Would make you cynical about taking anyone's word on a project like that.
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Had got permission from the lady homeowner, but the gentleman homeowner was upset about the hole when he got home. Luckily at least half of his upset was directed at his wife.
 
GoldDigger said:
Scott Adams, of Dilbert fame, had a contest to find a word that members of Dogbert's New World Order (technocrats) could use to make fun of others without them realizing it.
The winner was "in-duhh-vidual".

Sent from my XT1585 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

I spent several years at a desk in a corporation. Dilbert was not far from truth in many cases. I have seen some of the supposedly most intelligent people make the dumbest decisions you could imagine.
 
Dilbert is my second favorite comic (after Calvin and Hobbs). I once worked at a dysfunctional manufacturing plant where I kept a Dilbert daily calendar on my desk. Every couple of weeks, management would make some strange pronouncement or policy change. I would flip through my Dilbert desk calendar, find the cartoon that matched the situation (it's amazing how closely they matched), enlarge it on the copier, and surreptitiously post it around the plant. Some of those policies were rescinded almost immediately afterward. Coincidence? I think not.
 
This week:

"The tenant just called and said they need ten receptacles installed by the end of next week. Can you do that?"
"Uh, that's a little vague. I have availability next week, but am unsure as to whether I have sufficient manpower depending on the specifics."
"Can you meet?"
"I am buried, but I'll make some time tomorrow afternoon."

The next afternoon, I take a look. I generated a proposal with this scope of work the next morning:

• Disconnect existing furniture from (old building) and safe off related circuits. Furnish and install blank covers as required.
• Relocate existing circuit P1-124 to spare at circuit 107 in same panel. Update panel directory and append a note to advise future users of the change (junction boxes between panel and load cannot be reliably located and remarked.)
• Furnish and install one 208Y/120V multiwire branch circuit with common neutral from Panel P1 - 121, 123, 125 to south row of cubicles.
• Furnish and install one 208Y/120V multiwire branch circuit with common neutral from Panel P1 - 116, 118, 120 to middle row of cubicles.
• Furnish and install one 208Y/120V multiwire branch circuit with common neutral from Panel P1 - 122, 124, 126 to north row of cubicles.
• Extend existing circuit P1-33 to wall receptacles on the south wall towards the west end of the suite. Furnish and install the three new receptacles, fishing into finished wall from grid ceiling above with MC cable.
• Extend existing circuit P1-35 to wall receptacle at north west end of cubicles. Furnish and install the new receptacle, fishing into finished wall from grid ceiling above with MC cable.
• Furnish and install one power pole to supply middle and north rows of cubicles. Please see attached submittals.
• Connect twenty-one cubicles at three power feed locations. Power feed whips and furniture to be furnished by others.
• Relocation of office furniture to be completed by others.
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No, by now, I can't get all that done by the end of the week. I kinda wondered where "ten receptacles" came from...? :huh:
 
3-phase appliance in single phase restaraunt

3-phase appliance in single phase restaraunt

kwired said:
Worse yet they get that commercial appliance and it is three phase and you have single phase service:blink:

Had that happen more often on small restaurants, and purchasing of used equipment though.
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I agree! Recently I got contacted from a restaraunt owner I do work for, it was a Friday, mid-morning. Apparently the dishwasher he had ordered 3 months ago had arrived and the appliance supplier was installing it, could I come down and wire it up?! No heads up that this was coming down the pipe!

I show up within an hour. The appliance guy had taken out the 20 year old unit and was just finishing up the install. I look at the nameplate and I see 3-phase (Oh, crap!)! I ask if it's convertible to single? He doesn't know, so puts a call into the tech dept. In meantime I also see it's rated for something like 65 amps...? The old one was a 240v 30amp unit.

Needless to say, it wasn't to to happen! Especially not today! The cooks are starting to look at us as the lunch crowd was filtering in... We rip out that unit, lug it back down the stairs. It took 4 of us to get the old unit back upstairs. Then find out they had ripped out the control wires for associated soaper and rinsers, thinking they were done with that crappy unit!

Eventually I told them they were on their own! I got power to the old unit and left them to figure out the control wires! They were scratching their heads as I left!
 
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