Daily Reports

[480sparky]

Wouldn't that defeat the purpose for court? If you can just bind your loose leaf notes together doesn't it accomplish the same thing? The courts might as well just accept it loose...........

You bind them before you fill them out, not after they're all completed.

 

[petersonra]

so all the people using 3 part forms for this kind of thing are totally out of luck when they go to court?

does not seem likely.

 

[jaylectricity]

You bind them before you fill them out, not after they're all completed.

Nobody has to know WHEN I bound them.

 

[mkgrady]

so all the people using 3 part forms for this kind of thing are totally out of luck when they go to court?

does not seem likely.

Nope. I have been involved with numerous claims and court cases where daily reports were used. None of the reports were bound and none of the reports were ever questioned.

Now, do I think a bound book of reports is more convincing of their autheticity? Yup.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Now what's funny about all this, is as a jurisdiction we are going through our address files and getting rid of all the notes, correction notices, etc. When the subpoena comes and says "all pertinent documents", sometimes it's better not to have a paper trail.

And "all pertinent documents" means all, as an inspector if you keep a daily planner then you must keep them all, some over the top inspectors have personal files they keep at home (I don't know why) and those can be called in also, as well as message pads, personal notes, etc.

 

[LEO2854]

Where do you find these permanently bound, or do you use a ledger type log that has this in it...I am so glad I found this thread I was looking to make up some daily's but never knew they had to be bound.

I use daily at a glance its wire bound and at the end of the year store them with the rest of the paper work.
http://www.ataglance.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/category3_10052_10002_46706_-1_Y_46701_10052_Y

You can get them at staples.

 

[martinpgrant]

You indicated you are doing public works projects. As an inspector of record for a State agency, I can tell you that we require all contractors to submit daily reports/logs for our records. In reality they are only used if there is ever a dispute over scope and/or if there is ever an issue related to prevailing wage records.

 

[480sparky]

Nobody has to know WHEN I bound them.

So how do you fake an entire book?

FWIW, apparently Fedex Office doesn't do that type of binding any more. They now have a "Blind TapeMan", which glues the end of every page to a strip of tape.

 

[jaylectricity]

So how do you fake an entire book?

You don't have to fake the entire book. You just don't bind the book unless it's needed in court. Then if you need to fake a few pages you slip them in before binding it.

I don't know, I'm not really advocating perjury, I'm just saying that it seems silly to think a court won't accept it if it isn't bound when obviously it's not that hard to just bind it whenever it becomes necessary. They're the same notes, except you've spent the money to bind them and that suddenly makes them more legitimate in the court's eye? It just doesn't make sense.

 

[480sparky]

You don't have to fake the entire book. You just don't bind the book unless it's needed in court. Then if you need to fake a few pages you slip them in before binding it.

I don't know, I'm not really advocating perjury, I'm just saying that it seems silly to think a court won't accept it if it isn't bound when obviously it's not that hard to just bind it whenever it becomes necessary. They're the same notes, except you've spent the money to bind them and that suddenly makes them more legitimate in the court's eye? It just doesn't make sense.

It's not the 'the court' won't accept it, it's more likely that opposing counsel will have a field day with something that's obviously fake, or something that can easily be faked.

It would really send up a red flag if you came to court with two or three sheets bound together, and they magically are the ones that have a bearing on the case.

But having an entire journal, spanning several months, and somewhere in it are the two or three pages you need........ that's far less likely to be dismissed.

It would carry more weight if you had to jump around the same book, making a reference to January 21st, March 3rd, June 11th, July 14th, and August 28th instead of having just those 5 pages bound together.

 

[jaylectricity]

It's not the 'the court' won't accept it, it's more likely that opposing counsel will have a field day with something that's obviously fake, or something that can easily be faked.

It would really send up a red flag if you came to court with two or three sheets bound together, and they magically are the ones that have a bearing on the case.

But having an entire journal, spanning several months, and somewhere in it are the two or three pages you need........ that's far less likely to be dismissed.

It would carry more weight if you had to jump around the same book, making a reference to January 21st, March 3rd, June 11th, July 14th, and August 28th instead of having just those 5 pages bound together.

Give me a little credit, do you think I was talking about binding the 5 pages I need together? No. I'm talking about the inference that your binded daily log carries more weight in court because you can't just go back and fake the pages you need. But the truth is, you CAN go back and fake the pages you need simply by never binding your daily logs unless you need them in court. Then you can fudge the facts in your favor, bring the year's daily logs to get binded before you bring them into court.

 

[jaylectricity]

One thing to bear in mind: If it goes to court, a loose-leaf binder won't cut it. They have to be permanently bound or else it'll get thrown out.

It's the "it'll get thrown out" part that I'm talking about.

 

[480sparky]

Give me a little credit, do you think I was talking about binding the 5 pages I need together? No. I'm talking about the inference that your binded daily log carries more weight in court because you can't just go back and fake the pages you need. But the truth is, you CAN go back and fake the pages you need simply by never binding your daily logs unless you need them in court. Then you can fudge the facts in your favor, bring the year's daily logs to get binded before you bring them into court.

If it's your policy to have these bound log books on every job every day, then all I would have to do is ask you to produce the ones the precede and follow the one you're submitting. If you can't produce those, I've just shot your single book down.

But if you bring in a book dated Jan 3rd through Aug. 28th, 2008, which contains the pages relevant to the case, and to back them up, you show up with a logbook dated June 17th 2007 through Jan. 2nd, 2008, and one dated Aug. 29th 2008 through May 19th, 2009, well, that pretty much would convince anyone that what's written in them is the truth.

Look at it this way: Put YOUR log book up against your OPPONENTS log book.

 

[jaylectricity]

You're right. People will believe anything nowadays as long as you give them the right song and dance.

 

[480sparky]

You're right. People will believe anything nowadays as long as you give them the right song and dance.

If it's the song & dance they're expecting. You don't sing an opera at a birthday party.

 

[jaylectricity]

If it's the song & dance they're expecting. You don't sing an opera at a birthday party.

Tell that to Luciano Pavarotti.

 

[480sparky]

Tell that to Luciano Pavarotti.

I would, but he's taking a dirt bath. Word is, he'll be a while.

 

[LarryFine]

Also, they may look for stuff like every page being written with the same pen and having the same handwriting, as if they were all filled in at one sitting.

 

[LarryFine]

Word is, he'll be a while.

Not his word.