Damp location

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Jim W in Tampa

Jim W in Tampa

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Tampa Florida
Inspector had issues with eye ball trim on a can mounted in the sofit.First off i looked under definitions and did not find DAMP.Is a can mounted in the soffit in a damp location ? He has no problem with the can itself but wants proof that the trim is ok for its use and also as to what bulbs are ok.The cans are to light up a sign on the wall.Rain could not hit this .Halo can and halo eyeball.Trim does not say anything about damp or dry.
 
77401 said:
Isnt everything in Florida Damp? (Humor)
Trims are rated for the housing, bulbs are rated for the trim.
Show him that & let him tell you why its no good.
Its not your job to educated him.
Is this inspector new? Does he have a supervisor? If so start there.
If not ask him if he know about this...
http://www.nachi.org/
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I know i have been damp for last 2 weeks.Not at liberty to say why he is doing this.But he is demanding proof that the trim is rated for damp.I dont know if it even is damp.What could happen except some rust a few years from now ? Can is rated for damp and sofit is fully vented.I asked him what he wanted ,shower trim ? he did not answer
 
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77401 said:
You know the eyeball is not rated for damp.
$10 & 2 trips & your finished.
1st trip) put a damp trim on 7 get it finaled
2nd trip) put the eyeball back in. Save the shower trim for later.
Move on....
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That wont work cause i have 6 more offices to go in this complex.Also that would get me fired.We either comply or fix we do not try to hide or get around anything.Our company is noted for code compliant work and quality.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
First off i looked under definitions and did not find DAMP.
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Look in 100 under Location, Damp which includes ". . . partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches . . . "

Sounds like a soffit to me.
 
Mike03a3 said:
Look in 100 under Location, Damp which includes ". . . partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches . . . "

Sounds like a soffit to me.
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OK thanks and then yes i would need to call it damp.Now do i need trim that is also rated for damp ? If so we will be making some very unhappy tenants with a shower trim.I dont see what good a shower trim will do when there is open air thru the sofit vent right into the holes that are normal in the can.This a first time for an inspector to jumb on this issue and we have hundreds just like it
 
Shower trims are rated for wet locations. Under a soffit or in a shower not subject to shower spray a recessed fixture can be of the damp location type. I think that almost all recessed fixtures are rated for damp locations. A wet location fixture is not required in the location outlined in the OP.
 
infinity said:
Shower trims are rated for wet locations. Under a soffit or in a shower not subject to shower spray a recessed fixture can be of the damp location type. I think that almost all recessed fixtures are rated for damp locations. A wet location fixture is not required in the location outlined in the OP.
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OK so now we are down to one remaining question ,is my eyeball trim rated for damp location ? Also i thought an inspecter had to cite that something IS a violation and not me prove that it is not.He let this 1 build pass but wants proof for the others and if he is right we will change this one too.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
OK so now we are down to one remaining question ,is my eyeball trim rated for damp location ? Also i thought an inspecter had to cite that something IS a violation and not me prove that it is not.He let this 1 build pass but wants proof for the others and if he is right we will change this one too.
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Jim, I belive if the fixture is listed for this location(damp) then I would not require that a wet location trim be installed. I have approved many buildings with the same type of trim installed in a soffit. If the inspector has a concern then maybe he should do some homework and get the information to say wether an eyeball trim meets the intent of the code. This is a damp location and not a wet one. There wont be any water splashing inside of the fixture in this location. So it does not matter what trim is installed as long as the housing is approved and listed for a damp location.
 
marcb said:
Jim, I belive if the fixture is listed for this location(damp) then I would not require that a wet location trim be installed. I have approved many buildings with the same type of trim installed in a soffit. If the inspector has a concern then maybe he should do some homework and get the information to say wether an eyeball trim meets the intent of the code. This is a damp location and not a wet one. There wont be any water splashing inside of the fixture in this location. So it does not matter what trim is installed as long as the housing is approved and listed for a damp location.
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He is not asking for wet just damp.I cant see why it would no be listed that way but we will soon find out.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
He is not asking for wet just damp.I cant see why it would no be listed that way but we will soon find out.
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I was looking at the very same spec sheet that Charlie "cpal" linked. Using it for example, the entire assembly is listed for damp, and upgraded to wet when using the so noted trims (the trims really wouldn't be of much use in wet locations without the housings!!!). I believe this is also inline with UL's field modified disclaimer:
FIELD MODIFICATIONS​
The UL Mark applies to the product as it is originally manufactured when shipped from the factory. Authorized use of the UL Mark is the manufacturer's declaration that the product was originally manufactured in accordance with the applicable requirements. UL does not know what the effect of a modification may have on the safety of the product or the continued validity of the UL certification mark unless the field modifications have been specifically investigated by UL. Unless UL investigates a modified product, UL cannot indicate that the product continues to meet UL's safety requirements.

The only exception for a field modification authorized by UL is when the product has specific replacement markings. For example, a switchboard may have specific grounding kits added in the field. The switchboard is marked with a list of specific kit numbers that have been investigated for use in that particular switchboard. Only grounding kits that are included on the product have been investigated for use in that product.

link to entire text
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Jim W in Tampa said:
OK so now we are down to one remaining question ,is my eyeball trim rated for damp location ? Also i thought an inspecter had to cite that something IS a violation and not me prove that it is not.He let this 1 build pass but wants proof for the others and if he is right we will change this one too.
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Ok so you have proved to use ya wont skimp to get it past .However at times safe violations are in order. Dont see the problem one interpritation of the code doent make unsafe violations just violations to that intetpritation recessed cans go in sofits all over the country daily and if you think a eyeball is any less safe that a flat trim both using a par bulb then your compony is not realy safer than a nother just more expensive
 
The eye ball is needed to direct the light onto the sign.We think its fine and code compliant.Have never ran into a problem with an inspector before over this.Personally i think he is just trying to tag it and if thats all he can find then we have done great.I am thinking he does not want to tag this because if he is proved wrong he will look bad.Is this my job to provide proof or his ? He is the inspector should he not know ?
This is same job that he wanted breaker locks for the disconnect that lack work space.He was trying very hard to fail this job for a reason i cant say.
 
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Jim W in Tampa said:
Halo can and halo eyeball.
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There's the source of your information. Call Halo and ask for documentation of the trim's use in a damp location. He's gotta accept Halo's word for it.
 
Jim W in Tampa said:
Inspector had issues with eye ball trim on a can mounted in the sofit.First off i looked under definitions and did not find DAMP.Is a can mounted in the soffit in a damp location ? He has no problem with the can itself but wants proof that the trim is ok for its use and also as to what bulbs are ok.The cans are to light up a sign on the wall.Rain could not hit this .Halo can and halo eyeball.Trim does not say anything about damp or dry.
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Location, Damp. Locations protected from weather and not subject to saturation with water or other liquids but subject to moderate degrees of moisture. Examples of such locations include partially protected locations under canopies, marquees, roofed open porches, and like locations, and interior locations subject to moderate degrees of moisture, such as some basements, some barns, and some cold-storage warehouses.
Jim, how far are the can lights for the edge of the overhang? As a code professional I would approve these for this location.
 
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