Day lite control

[GoldDigger]

Even more convenient, don't need to worry about turning things off when you leave.

And you put in a big enough UPS under the desk to keep the computer running all night.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I have done a good amount of work in California under the new Title 24 requirements. Some products that will really help you out are either looking into doing a nLight system (Acuity Brands) or a newer company called Digital Lumens has networked control/daylight sensors/etc. manufactured into the fixture itself. However, I will say that if I were you I would try to stray away from daylighting. I know the code requires it for daylit zones, however, the code also provides an exception to A LOT of the control requirements. If you can design your lighting system (area) so that it is equal to or under .5 watts per square foot then you are exempt from most control requirements. Btw, with LEDs .5W/Sq Ft. is not hard at all. Again, I know it's pretty cool to have a fancy lighting system, but the cost of it is absolutely insane especially when you consider not only materials cost, but installation and commissioning for networked lighting systems. Anyway - That's just my 2 cents.

- Drew

info is worth a lot more than .02... spot on.

thanks for the digital lumens info.... i've not seen any of it yet.

nLight is the most sophisticated, flexible system going. and then you price it.
a daylighting sensor with motion built in, is about $225 wholesale.
i looked at a nice nLight install in 5,000 sq. ft. office space, and the total
lighting package from nLight was a shade over $100k.

just the hardware.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

info is worth a lot more than .02... spot on.

thanks for the digital lumens info.... i've not seen any of it yet.

nLight is the most sophisticated, flexible system going. and then you price it.
a daylighting sensor with motion built in, is about $225 wholesale.
i looked at a nice nLight install in 5,000 sq. ft. office space, and the total
lighting package from nLight was a shade over $100k.

just the hardware.

No problem! I forgot to mention that the Digital Lumens are wireless too It's a pretty awesome system and fairly affordable (considering other options). So essentially the fixtures wirelessly talk to each other and the keypad on the wall so no need for running control wiring, etc. Saves a lot on installation, but you'll still need commissioning for the system.

 

[mgookin]

info is worth a lot more than .02... spot on.

thanks for the digital lumens info.... i've not seen any of it yet.

nLight is the most sophisticated, flexible system going. and then you price it.
a daylighting sensor with motion built in, is about $225 wholesale.
i looked at a nice nLight install in 5,000 sq. ft. office space, and the total
lighting package from nLight was a shade over $100k.

just the hardware.

Interesting post.

I googled nlight and came up with a laser company. Do you have a link to what you're talking about?

 

[mwm1752]

No problem! I forgot to mention that the Digital Lumens are wireless too It's a pretty awesome system and fairly affordable (considering other options). So essentially the fixtures wirelessly talk to each other and the keypad on the wall so no need for running control wiring, etc. Saves a lot on installation, but you'll still need commissioning for the system.

But what about all of the EMF's floating in the area? I hear there are many sensitive people to its effects.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

Interesting post.

I googled nlight and came up with a laser company. Do you have a link to what you're talking about?

Here ya go.

http://nlightcontrols.com/

 

[Sierrasparky]

I have done a good amount of work in California under the new Title 24 requirements. Some products that will really help you out are either looking into doing a nLight system (Acuity Brands) or a newer company called Digital Lumens has networked control/daylight sensors/etc. manufactured into the fixture itself. However, I will say that if I were you I would try to stray away from daylighting. I know the code requires it for daylit zones, however, the code also provides an exception to A LOT of the control requirements. If you can design your lighting system (area) so that it is equal to or under .5 watts per square foot then you are exempt from most control requirements. Btw, with LEDs .5W/Sq Ft. is not hard at all. Again, I know it's pretty cool to have a fancy lighting system, but the cost of it is absolutely insane especially when you consider not only materials cost, but installation and commissioning for networked lighting systems. Anyway - That's just my 2 cents.

- Drew

.5W/Sqft. I don't know. That won't work well from what I have seen. That can be quite a dim installation. I just looked at a project
a friend of mine was working on that was all LED and was 1.2 watt sqft. Gen illumination. This was a retail sales area and display I would not want to the area less than 1/2 of that.

If there is any truth to what my grandma said about don't read in the dark you'll go blind.... were all gonna go blind out here in the west.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

.5W/Sqft. I don't know. That won't work well from what I have seen. That can be quite a dim installation. I just looked at a project
a friend of mine was working on that was all LED and was 1.2 watt sqft. Gen illumination. This was a retail sales area and display I would not want to the area less than 1/2 of that.

If there is any truth to what my grandma said about don't read in the dark you'll go blind.... were all gonna go blind out here in the west.

Retail is a different beast than warehouses. I worked in retail design for around 3 years so I'm pretty familiar with it. It's practically impossible to get .5 w/sqft in a retail application due to all the track lighting/ decorative lighting/ etc. You have to jump through a lot of hoops and apply different allowances for essentially every retail job. But warehouses it's super easy to get 20-30 foot candles with .5w/sqft and that is PLENTY for a warehouse area. Even offices it's pretty easy to get by with this exception.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Retail is a different beast than warehouses. I worked in retail design for around 3 years so I'm pretty familiar with it. It's practically impossible to get .5 w/sqft in a retail application due to all the track lighting/ decorative lighting/ etc. You have to jump through a lot of hoops and apply different allowances for essentially every retail job. But warehouses it's super easy to get 20-30 foot candles with .5w/sqft and that is PLENTY for a warehouse area. Even offices it's pretty easy to get by with this exception.

I can't imagine working in a place with only .5 because they went the route to avoid expensive controls. No problem walking down the isle but reading info on a box .. EEKS
I'd have a LED work light permanently glued to my head. :lol:

 

[jglavin427]

I can't imagine working in a place with only .5 because they went the route to avoid expensive controls. No problem walking down the isle but reading info on a box .. EEKS
I'd have a LED work light permanently glued to my head. :lol:

It can be done... before LEDs we did an office building and achieved 0.3 W/SF using T8 fixtures. Achieved about 20-25 footcandles on the work surfaces, plenty for general office work. It was one of those "industrial" looking offices, using an open ceiling (all ducts and pipes painted bright white) and side mount striplights.

California might be different but in Colorado the electrical permit is based upon electrical installation per the NEC. The electrical inspector inspects per the NEC. Energy savings is not in the NEC. I would certainly call out an electrical inspector failing an electrical final because there were to many fixtures in a building or I didn't put in high efficacy lamping. The rule would need mandated by the AHJ in a approved ammendment by local goverment. The Building inspector is technically the inspector passing or failing the components required for the energy code.

Not true, energy codes are in the CO state building codes. Colorado is on the I believe 2003 IECC statewide, and local building departments adopt newer as they are able. In the Denver metro most places are now on the 2012 IECC. Some add custom requirements on top of the code, such as Boulder where you have to beat the code by 30%. Denver is in the process of adopting and amending the 2015 international codes right now. Check out your local building department's website, they will list all adopted codes and amendments and most if not all include the IECC in that list. Inspectors may not be as well versed in energy codes as they are with the NEC, but they certainly do look for it. I have had to justify my designs during final (designs that were approved by plans review) to some of the pickier inspectors in the Denver metro.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

I can't imagine working in a place with only .5 because they went the route to avoid expensive controls. No problem walking down the isle but reading info on a box .. EEKS
I'd have a LED work light permanently glued to my head. :lol:

Not sure how familiar you are with foot candle levels, but offices are usually around 30-40 fc to give you an idea. So 30 I would think would be Plenty to read a label - For young working eyes that is However, a work light is always handy. In this age of increasing technology I've had to force myself to stop thinking of lighting in watts and instead think of it in lumens and foot candles. .5w/sqft. with incandescents or metal halides no way, however LED's are not a problem. Check the link below for a rough idea of different light levels per recommended applications.

https://www.lightingdesignlab.com/sites/default/files/pdf/Foot Candle Light Guide.pdf

 

[Sierrasparky]

It can be done... before LEDs we did an office building and achieved 0.3 W/SF using T8 fixtures. Achieved about 20-25 footcandles on the work surfaces, plenty for general office work. It was one of those "industrial" looking offices, using an open ceiling (all ducts and pipes painted bright white) and side mount striplights.

I don't see how that was plausible. The only way you can get that number is if the reading is taken right under the luminare. The falloff outside that immediate area is drastic. That office must be for young eyes. As I said i would have a headlamp permanently glued to my head in that case. Just cause you did it does not mean that you should.
You are drinking some kind of kool aide.
How about we agree to disagree

 

[Fitzdrew516]

But what about all of the EMF's floating in the area? I hear there are many sensitive people to its effects.

That's what the dramatic Californians will tell you... :lol:

 

[Fitzdrew516]

See attached jpg

See attached jpg

I can't imagine working in a place with only .5 because they went the route to avoid expensive controls. No problem walking down the isle but reading info on a box .. EEKS
I'd have a LED work light permanently glued to my head. :lol:

Sierra - Check out this attachment. I just ran some quick photometry. This is using the Cree CXB High bay fixture. Warehouse is 200' x 320' x 35' with 50/30/10 reflectances and lights mounted @ 31'. This design is under .5 w/sqft and averages around 42 foot candles! Gotta love some LED's

 

[Sierrasparky]

Sierra - Check out this attachment. I just ran some quick photometry. This is using the Cree CXB High bay fixture. Warehouse is 200' x 320' x 35' with 50/30/10 reflectances and lights mounted @ 31'. This design is under .5 w/sqft and averages around 42 foot candles! Gotta love some LED's

I hear yah, however there is something weird about that type of light. You get the Fc but many people just don't like the light. It seems bright but not. Is that for a CRI near 90 ?

You ever notice that flying bugs are not as attracted to LED light? There is a reason. I think we will find large amounts of Eye issues in the coming years.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

I hear yah, however there is something weird about that type of light. You get the Fc but many people just don't like the light. It seems bright but not. Is that for a CRI near 90 ?

You ever notice that flying bugs are not as attracted to LED light? There is a reason. I think we will find large amounts of Eye issues in the coming years.

I think this particular fixture is 80 CRI.

 

[kwired]

I hear yah, however there is something weird about that type of light. You get the Fc but many people just don't like the light. It seems bright but not. Is that for a CRI near 90 ?

You ever notice that flying bugs are not as attracted to LED light? There is a reason. I think we will find large amounts of Eye issues in the coming years.

And class action lawsuits against lighting manufacturers, designers, installers, etc.

 

[Fitzdrew516]

And class action lawsuits against lighting manufacturers, designers, installers, etc.

We all have to die of something. I just hope my death is more exciting than LED eye cancer :lol:

 

[iwire]

You know they felt the high speed of trains would suck your breath away.

 

[Fulthrotl]

That's what the dramatic Californians will tell you... :lol:

absolutely. did you know that the electrons saved by daylight harvesting enter the
brain stem, and cause partial blindness?

that is why the lights appear so dim... it's the electrons in the brain stem....

and to make it even worse, where businesses cooperate in "load shedding", when
big brother turns you down to 70%, the controller does it over 5 minutes, so you can
adjust to it without whining. you just gradually become aware that you can't see poo.

but, it's worth it. this will cure global warming..... and cooper lightings spongy second
quarter earnings.

checklist; institutional fears addressed:

global warming
big brother circa 1984
mindless overregulation
evil public utilities
EMF poisoning
evil lighting companies
aging baby boomers

now, if i can somehow tie AFCI breakers into this,
that will cover all the big ones.....