Dealing with inflexible workers

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Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
IMO this thread should be closed. Unless the OP can still read the responses.

I'm not sure how a "Banning" works. No I don't want to find out either!!:D
 

ramsy

Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
Location
LA basin, CA
Occupation
Service Electrician 2020 NEC
No worries. Forum rats re-incarnate into different animals. Marc will be back.
I've spend time with my nose in the corner too. I was let back after being a good sport.
 
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SmithBuilt

Senior Member
Location
Foothills of NC
IMO this thread should be closed. Unless the OP can still read the responses.

I'm not sure how a "Banning" works. No I don't want to find out either!!:D



I'm going to respectfully disagree. I learned something form SparknMike's post. I have truthfully learned more from searching old posts than from posting myself. There's probably no way to measure how much has been learned from this forum. It's better than any CE class I've been to.
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
I'm going to respectfully disagree. I learned something form SparknMike's post. I have truthfully learned more from searching old posts than from posting myself. There's probably no way to measure how much has been learned from this forum. It's better than any CE class I've been to.

That's cool. :smile:
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
It is more than just cool ! OK, JMO!

Be Safe, Look Safe, Act Safe ... Happy Monday!

I do not understand what your point is. The OP can not respond to this
thread. This thread is a "Talk amongst yourselves" situation.

I think it should be closed because the OP will not benefit from the

discussion. If the topic is educational to others despite the OP not being

present. Then I think it's cool,or should I say OK? I just don't see your point.
 

cadpoint

Senior Member
Location
Durham, NC
My response is:
An over-all response is to SmithBuilt statement, Just delete your Phrase for a moment, It's Still way more than Cool to be here and learn...

Check, Fold, Raise, Or just play, Do you understand that ?

There are things stated and presented here that I'll never touch that I get to read about all the time, its a pleasure to be here and learn, I'm sorry you missed my inference ...
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
My response is:
An over-all response is to SmithBuilt statement, Just delete your Phrase for a moment, It's Still way more than Cool to be here and learn...

Check, Fold, Raise, Or just play, Do you understand that ?

There are things stated and presented here that I'll never touch that I get to read about all the time, its a pleasure to be here and learn, I'm sorry you missed my inference ...

I'm going to be honest with you. Why do you communicate like

"Yoda" (Star Wars) "Do or Do not,there is no try." No offense Cadpoint.

We are all learning here, there is no need to complicate things more

than the already are. Yes,I undertood what you said. It was just more work

than it should be. I mean no offense whatsoever.:D
 

George Stolz

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Windsor, CO NEC: 2017
Occupation
Service Manager
I do not understand what your point is. The OP can not respond to this
thread. This thread is a "Talk amongst yourselves" situation.

I think it should be closed because the OP will not benefit from the

discussion. If the topic is educational to others despite the OP not being

present. Then I think it's cool,or should I say OK? I just don't see your point.
As long as the thread remains on topic, it will remain open. You can agree with that or disagree, but as long as others can learn from and share their own insights, it is beneficial to the forum as a whole.

Marc can see posts in this forum, he has the technology; so we can return to the main topic.
 

Karl H

Senior Member
Location
San Diego,CA
As long as the thread remains on topic, it will remain open. You can agree with that or disagree, but as long as others can learn from and share their own insights, it is beneficial to the forum as a whole.

Marc can see posts in this forum, he has the technology; so we can return to the main topic.

Thank You George. I understand.
 

jrannis

Senior Member
As someone that has had to manage quite a few people, including under the supervision of a large corporate HR department, I'll offer my take on the situation. As with everything, take what you will and do what you feel is right. :cool:

First, at his age you can't simply terminate him as if this were the 1950's. As I have been educated in the matter, and I am sure that I am not all-knowing about the subject, the only way you can properly terminate him is to provide him several months of opportunities to improve while documenting his expectations and failures. Each document should be signed by you, him, and a witness. Every meeting or discussion on the matter should have at least one witness that understands the situation. Even then, it is surprising what people can get away with in court. The only up side I have found to this process is that you rarely have to terminate someone because they will get the picture long before they reach the end of the rope.

If this process comes as a bit of a surprise I would recommend reading up on the matter so that there are no surprises when you fire that special person that feels compelled to make a legal stand.

Secondarily, I don't know your company well enough to know how many people you have working for you but it can matter in this situation. People are always a mixed bag, and the better the mix (fewer weaknesses, more strengths) the more the employee is worth. In the end the mix of employees need to balance out to meet the company's demands, with one employee's strength balancing out another's weakness. The more people in a company the easier it tends to be to live with extreme weaknesses. If you can get the things done you need done, and get them done well, then it would seem that your mix of employees works. Unless you really feel confident you can replace him with someone else who will help your company do substantially better or will work for substantially less pay there isn't much of a reason to terminate him.

There are two exceptions for which I would consider terminating him even if the business is working as it should. One would be if his attitude, when it is degrading, is being passed to other employees. This is a bad situation that can cause major issues and take a tremendous effort to repair. I have had to repair such damage in a company before and the cure took over a year of constant effort along with turning over about a fourth of the people affected. After having administered the cure I would be quick to prevent the disease.

The other exception is if this is simply not a situation you can deal with yourself. I consider coping with the personality differences and discomforts part of being a manager. Honestly, if I only hired people that I really liked I would be likely to build an unbalanced company consisting of employees with similar strengths and weaknesses to my own. Still, jokes aside, managers are humans and there are limits to what they can cope with before becoming a problem themselves. If this is the situation it can be trickier to properly terminate someone because the bigger reason for terminating the employee is the fact that he pushes the boss's buttons.

I have a similar situation myself, and as of yet I have not terminated the guy. The only difference is that instead of an attitude problem his work quality just goes through the floor. To make a long story short, in the end we get done what we need to get done, I keep pushing him on ways to improve, and for his pay all I can do is exchange him for another employee with equal but different weaknesses. In my company I already have enough people who would be more like what I would typically get for his pay, so I really *need* him to stay and balance them out. Over time I am trying to improve other people as well so that, perhaps, one day I can replace him with a more typical person.

As an old guy I work with likes to point out, only people who have never had to manage people think managing people is a great thing. :rolleyes:

Bigger shops might have bigger problems with this but Im sure Marc doesnt have more than twenty people working for him:
This is from the defination page:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/adea.html

(b) The term ?employer? means a person engaged in an industry affecting commerce who has twenty or more employees for each working day in each of twenty or more calendar weeks in the current or preceding calendar year: Provided, That prior to June 30, 1968, employers having fewer than fifty employees shall not be considered employers. The term also means (1) any agent of such a person, and (2) a State or political subdivision of a State and any agency or instrumentality of a State or a political subdivision of a State, and any interstate agency, but such term does not include the United States, or a corporation wholly owned by the Government of the United States.
 

mkgrady

Senior Member
Location
Massachusetts
Bigger shops might have bigger problems with this but Im sure Marc doesnt have more than twenty people working for him:
This is from the defination page:
http://www.eeoc.gov/policy/adea.html

(b) The term ?employer? means a person engaged in an industry affecting commerce who has twenty or more employees for each working day in each of twenty or more calendar weeks in the current or preceding calendar year: Provided, That prior to June 30, 1968, employers having fewer than fifty employees shall not be considered employers. The term also means (1) any agent of such a person, and (2) a State or political subdivision of a State and any agency or instrumentality of a State or a political subdivision of a State, and any interstate agency, but such term does not include the United States, or a corporation wholly owned by the Government of the United States.

Are you saying a shop that doesn't meet the EEOC criteria (20 or more employees) for being an employer is exempt from discrimination lawsuits?
 
Say you have an employee who is... oh, 73 years 2 months and 14 days old. :smile:

This man is an excellent craftsman, and fairly productive. Does not complain about the symptoms of old age and shows up every day... BUT, this person is not flexible. This person thrives on a daily routine, which is good for construction work. Any deviation from a daily routine makes this person miserable, and he'll make anyone that will listen to him miserable.

What do you do? Just deal with it, and struggle to keep him doing the routine and predictable work OR fire him and take pot luck with another candidate OR counsel him?

Put yourself in his shoes. I wouldn't want to be in the field at that age. If you like his work and shows up everyday, deal with it. Also have a talk with him about the issue.
 
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