Man to Man
Man to Man
We call it a group hug where I work.They work great unless you hug the wrong guy....
Man to Man
We call it a group hug where I work.They work great unless you hug the wrong guy....
Dealing with inflexible workers
- Thread starter mdshunk
- Start date
- Status
prh1700
Member
- Location
- edgewater, md
I doubt this guy even knows he is bring a PITA about dragging up and hitting another job for you. I have to agree with the majority. Have a talk with him. I find it best away from the jobsite. Take him to lunch. This is the kind of guy that will give you some of the best workers you have ever had. I was humbled more than once as an apprentice by "old" men at the end of a day!! And boy did I learn a LOT from them. By the way, I alwayd found that guys worked their hardest for the boss that cared.
petersonra
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern illinois
- Occupation
- engineer
1. Older workers tend to be more oriented toward routine.
2. Older workers tend to be more productive at doing those kind of tasks.
Why do you want to screw up a good thing for you? So he is a bit of a curmudgeon. Big deal.
Put him to work doing what he does well for you and know that at the end of the day you made good money off his work.
Best advice I heard in this thread. I had a dear colleague in the cinema biz who was just as set in his ways and could be a royal pain in the butt to work with...but not only did the customers love his "crotchety old man" routine, but the guy was a genius and could find any part or equipment through his many industry connections.
When he died I lost a valuable source of information and resources, and a very dear friend. (R.I.P. Conrad L. Button)
The point to this is, Marc, that despite his drawbacks, this man is a valuable part of your team, and if he's not causing disruption or attitude problems with your other employees, leave him be, enjoy his productivity while he's still willing and able to work with you.
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
I just hope at 73 I can show up and pull a full days worth of work and feel like a productive member od society..
So mark be the bigger man and use his expertise to benefit your bottom line and make his end of times happy..I know you can do it..
Remeber to live your life as it is your only chance to make a difference..You do have an opportunity right in front of you..
So mark be the bigger man and use his expertise to benefit your bottom line and make his end of times happy..I know you can do it..
Remeber to live your life as it is your only chance to make a difference..You do have an opportunity right in front of you..
LarryFine
Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
- Location
- Henrico County, VA
- Occupation
- Electrical Contractor
Or the right guy. :roll:
K2X
Senior Member
- Location
- Colorado Springs
I would make the guy part time -on call. At 73 hopefully he doesn't need the check every week. I'd let him do the work he wants to do with the understanding he may not get 40 every week... I'm part time-on call. I always get more hours than i want.
I dunno Mark this is staring to sound like a leadership problem. Maybe you are just not trying hard enough.
Just deal with it. Is it really a " struggle " to keep him aboard ? You don't have to struggle
with any of the other guys that work for you ? Marc, IMO as the boss you have to be a
cut above the average Joe, It's why you get the respect that you get. At 73 I don't see
any new lessons being learned by this guy, It's not ALL about the bottom line ALL of the
time. That's why I say 'just deal with it'.
Last edited by a moderator:
billdozier
Senior Member
- Location
- gulf coast
Man Ive got to give this guy props. I simpily can not imagine showing up at work every day at his age. Heck Doing this in twenty years scares the hell out of me. One of the reasons I hope to be a pm by that time. Put my tools on when I can to stay healthy but not because I have to. If I were you mark Id keep the guy. Im sure he teaches your young guys and inspires them Weve got an oldtimer 50+ who outworks each one of us. That inspires each of us to try better So what did you end up doing Mark inquiering minds want to know
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
SparknMike
Member
As someone that has had to manage quite a few people, including under the supervision of a large corporate HR department, I'll offer my take on the situation. As with everything, take what you will and do what you feel is right.
First, at his age you can't simply terminate him as if this were the 1950's. As I have been educated in the matter, and I am sure that I am not all-knowing about the subject, the only way you can properly terminate him is to provide him several months of opportunities to improve while documenting his expectations and failures. Each document should be signed by you, him, and a witness. Every meeting or discussion on the matter should have at least one witness that understands the situation. Even then, it is surprising what people can get away with in court. The only up side I have found to this process is that you rarely have to terminate someone because they will get the picture long before they reach the end of the rope.
If this process comes as a bit of a surprise I would recommend reading up on the matter so that there are no surprises when you fire that special person that feels compelled to make a legal stand.
Secondarily, I don't know your company well enough to know how many people you have working for you but it can matter in this situation. People are always a mixed bag, and the better the mix (fewer weaknesses, more strengths) the more the employee is worth. In the end the mix of employees need to balance out to meet the company's demands, with one employee's strength balancing out another's weakness. The more people in a company the easier it tends to be to live with extreme weaknesses. If you can get the things done you need done, and get them done well, then it would seem that your mix of employees works. Unless you really feel confident you can replace him with someone else who will help your company do substantially better or will work for substantially less pay there isn't much of a reason to terminate him.
There are two exceptions for which I would consider terminating him even if the business is working as it should. One would be if his attitude, when it is degrading, is being passed to other employees. This is a bad situation that can cause major issues and take a tremendous effort to repair. I have had to repair such damage in a company before and the cure took over a year of constant effort along with turning over about a fourth of the people affected. After having administered the cure I would be quick to prevent the disease.
The other exception is if this is simply not a situation you can deal with yourself. I consider coping with the personality differences and discomforts part of being a manager. Honestly, if I only hired people that I really liked I would be likely to build an unbalanced company consisting of employees with similar strengths and weaknesses to my own. Still, jokes aside, managers are humans and there are limits to what they can cope with before becoming a problem themselves. If this is the situation it can be trickier to properly terminate someone because the bigger reason for terminating the employee is the fact that he pushes the boss's buttons.
I have a similar situation myself, and as of yet I have not terminated the guy. The only difference is that instead of an attitude problem his work quality just goes through the floor. To make a long story short, in the end we get done what we need to get done, I keep pushing him on ways to improve, and for his pay all I can do is exchange him for another employee with equal but different weaknesses. In my company I already have enough people who would be more like what I would typically get for his pay, so I really *need* him to stay and balance them out. Over time I am trying to improve other people as well so that, perhaps, one day I can replace him with a more typical person.
As an old guy I work with likes to point out, only people who have never had to manage people think managing people is a great thing.
First, at his age you can't simply terminate him as if this were the 1950's. As I have been educated in the matter, and I am sure that I am not all-knowing about the subject, the only way you can properly terminate him is to provide him several months of opportunities to improve while documenting his expectations and failures. Each document should be signed by you, him, and a witness. Every meeting or discussion on the matter should have at least one witness that understands the situation. Even then, it is surprising what people can get away with in court. The only up side I have found to this process is that you rarely have to terminate someone because they will get the picture long before they reach the end of the rope.
If this process comes as a bit of a surprise I would recommend reading up on the matter so that there are no surprises when you fire that special person that feels compelled to make a legal stand.
Secondarily, I don't know your company well enough to know how many people you have working for you but it can matter in this situation. People are always a mixed bag, and the better the mix (fewer weaknesses, more strengths) the more the employee is worth. In the end the mix of employees need to balance out to meet the company's demands, with one employee's strength balancing out another's weakness. The more people in a company the easier it tends to be to live with extreme weaknesses. If you can get the things done you need done, and get them done well, then it would seem that your mix of employees works. Unless you really feel confident you can replace him with someone else who will help your company do substantially better or will work for substantially less pay there isn't much of a reason to terminate him.
There are two exceptions for which I would consider terminating him even if the business is working as it should. One would be if his attitude, when it is degrading, is being passed to other employees. This is a bad situation that can cause major issues and take a tremendous effort to repair. I have had to repair such damage in a company before and the cure took over a year of constant effort along with turning over about a fourth of the people affected. After having administered the cure I would be quick to prevent the disease.
The other exception is if this is simply not a situation you can deal with yourself. I consider coping with the personality differences and discomforts part of being a manager. Honestly, if I only hired people that I really liked I would be likely to build an unbalanced company consisting of employees with similar strengths and weaknesses to my own. Still, jokes aside, managers are humans and there are limits to what they can cope with before becoming a problem themselves. If this is the situation it can be trickier to properly terminate someone because the bigger reason for terminating the employee is the fact that he pushes the boss's buttons.
I have a similar situation myself, and as of yet I have not terminated the guy. The only difference is that instead of an attitude problem his work quality just goes through the floor. To make a long story short, in the end we get done what we need to get done, I keep pushing him on ways to improve, and for his pay all I can do is exchange him for another employee with equal but different weaknesses. In my company I already have enough people who would be more like what I would typically get for his pay, so I really *need* him to stay and balance them out. Over time I am trying to improve other people as well so that, perhaps, one day I can replace him with a more typical person.
As an old guy I work with likes to point out, only people who have never had to manage people think managing people is a great thing.
ohm
Senior Member
- Location
- Birmingham, AL
Well said Mike, the perfect employee has not been created. Ones with terrific skills may have bad attitudes and those with good attitudes may not have such good skills.
Companies spend a lot training new hires and most of it isn't in a classroom. So termination is usually the last resort, especially if the people waiting in line for the job don't have much more to offer.
In short managing people is lots harder than it appears for technical people. Which is probably the reason you don't see many CEO's who were good engineers.
Companies spend a lot training new hires and most of it isn't in a classroom. So termination is usually the last resort, especially if the people waiting in line for the job don't have much more to offer.
In short managing people is lots harder than it appears for technical people. Which is probably the reason you don't see many CEO's who were good engineers.
Why not get someone else that thrives on changing things up while keeping this guy on those projects where he doesn't have to run around. Lots of electricians, me included, like to vary things up as much as possible. Maybe you just need someone else to goto for those service calls.
cschmid
Senior Member
- Location
- Northern cold country
now there are some words of wisdom..managing is just that managing..that is a whole lot of work..
Now lets see how I do on the opossite side of the fence..now that I am not managing..
Now lets see how I do on the opossite side of the fence..now that I am not managing..
hardworkingstiff
Senior Member
- Location
- Wilmington, NC
bradleyelectric
Senior Member
- Location
- forest hill, md
Has the original poster chimed back in as to how he resolved this situation?
Volta
Senior Member
- Location
- Columbus, Ohio
Funny thing about that . . .
ramsy
Roger Ruhle dba NoFixNoPay
- Location
- LA basin, CA
- Occupation
- Service Electrician 2020 NEC
What happened to mdshunk? Did this 73-yr old ox go Postal?
Unfortunately, my Union days proved people skills were less value than domination contests.
Unfortunate, since little could be learned from the seniors before removed by contractors culling the heard. If no longer the strongest ox, mother nature rotates the lineup for the next pissing contest.
If healthy at 73 I'd want to be active too. I understand insubordination is infectious, but true honor is to die in battle.
- Location
- Massachusetts
That will not be happening, the OP has left the building.
- Status