Decora switch for a disposal

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With all this talk about disconects under counters I'm starting to wonder if 110.26 would come into play?

Also, if a service person comes out and the disposal is hardwired, would they be checking for voltage at the disconect first, just as the they did for the AC disconect a few threads back? That seemed to be a big issue a coupla days ago, and it seemed to open a new can of worms.

I love that the basic questions are sometimes the ones that get debated the most. If this forum doesn't get you thinking I don't know what will!:)
 
Dave58er said:
With all this talk about disconects under counters I'm starting to wonder if 110.26 would come into play?

Also, if a service person comes out and the disposal is hardwired, would they be checking for voltage at the disconect first, just as the they did for the AC disconect a few threads back? That seemed to be a big issue a coupla days ago, and it seemed to open a new can of worms.

I love that the basic questions are sometimes the ones that get debated the most. If this forum doesn't get you thinking I don't know what will!:)
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Now what do we do ? Add a breaker lockout ?No thats no good.Howabout a pullout mounted on a wall.Ugly but safety comes first.
 
Dave58er said:
With all this talk about disconects under counters I'm starting to wonder if 110.26 would come into play?
Click to expand...

110.26(A) includes the wording, "Working space for equipment ..... likely to require ..... serving ..... while energized shall comply with the dimensions of" (1), (2), & (3).
Once the subject of what disconnect is required is resolved, one way or the other, you'll have a disposal that can be serviced while deenergized, so 110.26 doesn't apply.

Dave58er said:
I love that the basic questions are sometimes the ones that get debated the most. If this forum doesn't get you thinking I don't know what will!:)
Click to expand...

Reminds me of a chess game. It doesn't draw in many TV viewers. But the people playing the game sure are into it, aren't they ?

David
 
I sure tweaked a tail or two here...

I sure tweaked a tail or two here...

Bob (Iwire) wrote:

I have no idea why, and I also have no idea why that you often seem to believe that you by yourself could write a better code.
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and: (In reference to my comment about this issue and the AFCI issue being stupid)

I do not see this as 'stupid' and are very surprised you do especially considering your signature.
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First off, I highly respect Bob and he has given a lot of great answers here and on other forums. His level of experience as an electricain is also a lot greater than mine as well.

But I think in this case, he missed the big cheesy grin on the title line, as I was speaking tongue-in-cheek as to thumbing my nose at the Code.

The Code is indeed written over the course of many years and easily millions of man-hours of experience, more than any one of us can hope to gather in a full lifetime.

Can I, by myself, write a better Code? No, I would not presume to do so. (Well there are some very outdated issues with Art. 540 that I can attest to needing revision.)

BUT I can put forth arguements when something goes beyond assuring a certain level of safety and crosses over into the realm of dictating a specific design. And like it or not, if the Code is trying to say that I MUST use a standard toggle switch instead of a device not otherwise disallowed by UL or an NRTL for that use, then the Code has now crossed over into being a design manual, which we all know it is not. (Art. 90.1(c)) Especially when there is an allowed option of using a breaker lockout.

Should disposals have a positive disconnect or be provided with a breaker lockout? Absolutely.

Is cord-and-plug connected the safest solution to this debate? Absolutely again. If you are working on the disposal and have a clearly visible break with the cord unplugged that is indeed positive confirmation the power to the unit is off.

The other position I take is that the Code cannot protect the stupid from doing themselves harm. Any reasonable person who is about to attempt repair on that disposal is going to verify that the power is off, and will test at the unit's terminals (if hard wired) to be positive. Anything less is indeed stupid and natural selection will take over. :evil:

77401 said:

Dude its not the code it was one inspector that had a bad day because he couldnt get a H-on the night before.
Luckily common sense prevails the majority of the time.
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Yeah, I had caught that it was the inspector, but from the rest of the replies it seems that if we look at this deeper the Code has issues with it too. :roll:

But, you nailed it with that last line that luckily common sense prevails the majority of the time. :)

The Code is overall a well-meaning and useful document. But it has inconsistencies and conflicting rules as well as a few that are simply vague and serve no solid, real-life safety purpose. In a document of its scope, it is a credit to the CMP's that those issues are few.
 
Have you actually ever tried to test for voltage on a hard wired disposal???Hard enough to hard wire one with the space there is never mind use a set of probes to test for voltage.The NEC says there has to be 1 of 3 things #1 a disconnect that shows on or off,#2 a cord and plug,#3 a breaker lock out.A decora switch doesn`t have a on or off indicating position.So unless there is a cord/plug or a breaker lock out then a decora switch on a hard wired situation doesn`t comply with NEC articles.Plain and simple.
 
Best Practices exceed NEC standards

Best Practices exceed NEC standards

Cool, we finally have this thread to the point where everyone is ready to take a deep breath. Can I attempt to close it out in some logical fashion? Probably. But will I be successful? Probably not.

I will start by reminding us all that the code is a minimum standard and does not always rise to the level of what makes sense.

We should assume that working on a defective appliance means we cannot trust the hum of a jammed disposal to provide audible feedback. Many people might not be able to discern the hum of a stalled motor from background kitchen noise (like me, from too many rock concerts). Likewise, a loose electrical connection can mean an inadvertant start while mechanically servicing the disposal (let me just reach in here and wiggle the rotor -BGzzzz Vroom!!)

Clearly the Decora switch action is ambiquous, as are some conventional snap switches, since they can also be un-marked. So we need something more.

Is the lockout in the breaker box enough? The code thinks so, but I do not for these reasons:
Breakers can be mislabled. I'll wager it has not been more than thirty days on a job site since you have found an out of date breaker label.
Most modern breaker markings are unambiguous, but can still be hard to read/use. Older markings are even less so.
The more remote a disconnect, the less likely it is to be used.

So, in the interest of making work safety easy, convenient, and verifiable, I would argue that the best work practice is to connect disposals to a switched receptacle.
Is this required by the code? No. But it meets the code in a manner that is superior to many of the other work arounds proposed such as a lockout on the breaker and does not require any special hardware.
As a bonus it makes the customer happy since they get to keep the matching Decora switch. It also provides a lasting solution since a snap switch would be changed out by the resident after passing final inspection.

Safe, easy, verifiable, satsified customer; how can any of this be bad?

Cheers,
 
For cryin out loud, just put the stupid garbage disposal on a cord with a plug. it's the way it was done for years. When it craps out, you can reuse the cord and plug on the new one. Disposals are considered a disposable items. :rolleyes: who in their right mind would pay to have it repaired.

Oh, but i forgot, that might cost an extra $5 on your bid, "oh no I might not get the job now", oh please........................

11 pages of posts for this topic????? I think there are more world issues that need to be resolved, lets get to them :)
 
Many disposals now come with a cord attached from the factory.I did a condo complex and every one came thay way.Since we already cord connected our disposals we didnt have to go back when the plumber installed it.
 
They actually make a decora swich specificaly for disposealls. It will not remain on by itself, you have to press it and hold it on, and when you release it, it goes off. Good idea or bad, I don't know. (10$ each)
 
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