Dedicated Electrical Space 110.26 (F)(1)(a)

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jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
See the picture in post #1.

If the panel is surface mount and there is plumbing piping above the panel, then you have a code violation.


That states the purpose of the code, but does not give permission to violate any of the specific sections found in the code.

OK I'll agree that the DWV is in the dedicated space. But the other piping is not.
 

Canton

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrician
OK I'll agree that the DWV is in the dedicated space. But the other piping is not.

You lost me....how is the other pipe above the drip pan not in the dedicated space? Lookin at the photo nothing should be there to the structural ceiling, Its less than 6'......
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
You lost me....how is the other pipe above the drip pan not in the dedicated space? Lookin at the photo nothing should be there to the structural ceiling, Its less than 6'......

Technically the pan should not be but I was addressing the piping systems.

(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
width and depth
of the equipment and extending from the
floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to
the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated
to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection
apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical
installation shall be located in this zone.
 

Canton

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrician
Technically the pan should not be but I was addressing the piping systems.

(a) Dedicated Electrical Space. The space equal to the
width and depth
of the equipment and extending from the
floor to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft) above the equipment or to
the structural ceiling, whichever is lower, shall be dedicated
to the electrical installation. No piping, ducts, leak protection
apparatus, or other equipment foreign to the electrical
installation shall be located in this zone.

You have still lost me.....that piping is in the foot print of the gear and within the 6' dedicated height......how is the piping compliant? Its within the dedicated space.....a violation.
 

david luchini

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Connecticut
Occupation
Engineer
You have still lost me.....that piping is in the foot print of the gear and within the 6' dedicated height......how is the piping compliant? Its within the dedicated space.....a violation.

He's saying the piping is not within the footprint of the gear. Can't say for sure from the pictures, but he may be correct. If the depth of the gear is a block and a half, then from the second picture only the dwv pipe would be in the footprint.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
The air conditioning coils, or whatever else the pipes are draining also appears to be in the dedicated space, unless it is above the structural ceiling and on the floor above.
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
He's saying the piping is not within the footprint of the gear. Can't say for sure from the pictures, but he may be correct. If the depth of the gear is a block and a half, then from the second picture only the dwv pipe would be in the footprint.

I see what he is saying now, the piping is for a mop sink on the second,third floor, drain, hot and cold water
 

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Canton

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
Occupation
Electrician
He's saying the piping is not within the footprint of the gear. Can't say for sure from the pictures, but he may be correct. If the depth of the gear is a block and a half, then from the second picture only the dwv pipe would be in the footprint.

I'll agree with that, hard to see from the photo.
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
Yes that is what I was saying.

As to the installation technically a code violation. If I was inspecting this I would ask myself if the plumbing was 10' higher with/without the pan would it be safer.

Not being there to know if other factors are involved I lean toward approving this.
 

fbhwt

Electrical Systems Inspector
Location
Spotsylvania,Virginia
Occupation
Electrical Systems Inspector
Yes that is what I was saying.

As to the installation technically a code violation. If I was inspecting this I would ask myself if the plumbing was 10' higher with/without the pan would it be safer.

Not being there to know if other factors are involved I lean toward approving this.

There is not 6' from the top of switch gear to ceiling, so dedicated space from equipment to structural ceiling, the plumbing can not be raised 10", the piping and drip pan within the footprint of the switch gear is a violation, agreed?
 

don_resqcapt19

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Illinois
Occupation
retired electrician
Yes that is what I was saying.

As to the installation technically a code violation. If I was inspecting this I would ask myself if the plumbing was 10' higher with/without the pan would it be safer.

Not being there to know if other factors are involved I lean toward approving this.
110.26(F)(1)(b) requires the drip pan anytime the piping is above the dedicated equipment space and below the structural ceiling.
 

iwire

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Massachusetts
Just some drip pan pictures to go along with the discussion.

629e4552.jpg


1151ae54.jpg


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a566c9e8.jpg


ecf14e17.jpg


0ab45635.jpg


5115757d.jpg
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
There is not 6' from the top of switch gear to ceiling, so dedicated space from equipment to structural ceiling, the piping and drip pan within the footprint of the switch gear is a violation, agreed?

It's that simple. :roll:
 

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
One other option would be to install NEMA 3R, or other water tight gear and no need for the drip pan, probably adds a fair amount to the price of some of the gear that has been posted in this thread though.
 

GoldDigger

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Placerville, CA, USA
Occupation
Retired PV System Designer
One other option would be to install NEMA 3R, or other water tight gear and no need for the drip pan, probably adds a fair amount to the price of some of the gear that has been posted in this thread though.
So you eliminate the drip pan. That still leaves the pipes.
Close off the space with a "structural" chase or relocate the pipes?
The code problem is not the threat of dripping. That would be an issue if the pipes were outside the *dedicated* space or if the concern was a *working* space violation from the pan.
 
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jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
110.26(F)(1)(b) requires the drip pan anytime the piping is above the dedicated equipment space and below the structural ceiling.

Not sure that is true.

(b) Foreign Systems. The area above the dedicated
space required by 110.26(E)(1)(a) shall be permitted to
contain foreign systems, provided protection is installed to
avoid damage to the electrical equipment from condensation,
leaks, or breaks in such foreign systems.

Insulation sleeves?
 

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
I agree regarding condensation but how would insulation provide protection from breaks or leaks?
 

jxofaltrds

Senior Member
Location
Mike P. Columbus Ohio
Occupation
ESI
I agree regarding condensation but how would insulation provide protection from breaks or leaks?

Solid pipe - no fittings.

Now explain what this means:

(c) Sprinkler Protection. Sprinkler protection shall be
permitted for
the dedicated space where the piping complies
with this section.

And you could comply how?
 
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