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- Placerville, CA, USA
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- Retired PV System Designer
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Delayed reaction from electrical shock?
- Thread starter jason
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Curious nerd
Member
- Location
- Washington State, USA
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ggunn
PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
- Location
- Austin, TX, USA
- Occupation
- Consulting Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
Who knows what darkness lurks in the hearts of men? The Google do.
Saying it's not uncommon for someone to receive an electrical shock is something I should be aware of saying?
Several of you in this thread have posted that you've been shocked many times.
So it's uncommon?
I didn't say we (as electricians) commonly get shocked on a daily basis. But anyone that has done electrical work for any length of time has been shocked many times or you're not being truthful. It happens.
Or you can sit up on the podium and tell everyone here how you're smarter than everyone else that has ever been shocked. You've been shocked. It's not uncommon. Or you're a wire puller that has never had to troubleshoot a problem in your life. Or lives, if you think you can make us believe that too.
Regardless, lets investigate. Investigator comes in, asks all employees are asked how many times they've been shocked in a certain period of time. Employee 1: Once in the past year. Employee 2: Not sure, maybe a time or 2. Employee 3: Never been shocked. Me: Maybe once in the past year, many times in the past 20 years. So the question is, is it uncommon to be shocked? The word uncommon would be however you look at it. What is uncommon?
Latest on the employee: It was not determined why he passed out. It could have possibly been a delayed reaction to the shock. It could also have been the fact that he was dehydrated.
Several of you in this thread have posted that you've been shocked many times.
So it's uncommon?
I didn't say we (as electricians) commonly get shocked on a daily basis. But anyone that has done electrical work for any length of time has been shocked many times or you're not being truthful. It happens.
Or you can sit up on the podium and tell everyone here how you're smarter than everyone else that has ever been shocked. You've been shocked. It's not uncommon. Or you're a wire puller that has never had to troubleshoot a problem in your life. Or lives, if you think you can make us believe that too.
Regardless, lets investigate. Investigator comes in, asks all employees are asked how many times they've been shocked in a certain period of time. Employee 1: Once in the past year. Employee 2: Not sure, maybe a time or 2. Employee 3: Never been shocked. Me: Maybe once in the past year, many times in the past 20 years. So the question is, is it uncommon to be shocked? The word uncommon would be however you look at it. What is uncommon?
Latest on the employee: It was not determined why he passed out. It could have possibly been a delayed reaction to the shock. It could also have been the fact that he was dehydrated.
- Location
- Massachusetts
Many of us, perhaps all of us, have received shocks however as far as OSHA and workers comp is concerned there is no excuse for that at all.
The rules require circuits to be de-energized or in the rare cases where live work is allowed PPE (Personal Protective Equipment) must be worn.
If OSHA investigates this accident you really need to stop saying things like 'electricians get shocks' OSHA will not be impressed and you will have a bad time.
As far as OSHA is concerned there is no 'common level' pretty much all employee electrical shocks are going to be connected with some OSHA violation.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
:thumbsup:
I don't want to condone unsafe practices, but stuff happens. Sometimes when something is malfunctioning you get shocked when you were not even thinking about that possibility. With more GFCI rules in codes these days and more stringent rules for employers the number of these incidents has gone down some, but there are still things that catch one by surprise even when trying to be careful about it.
Touching a live bus or a device terminal is something there is not much excuse for. Being in an unknown current path is something that can happen to anyone, electrical or non electrical worker.
- Location
- Massachusetts
That is so cute and for sure if you are ever questioned by OSHA in an accident investigation telling them that will solve everything. :lol::lol::lol:
There is almost no way to get a shock on a job without OSHA being able to assign a fine to some company.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
I think it's the way you phrased it. By saying "It's not uncommon..", the use of a double negative makes the sentence read "It is common". I would say a shock that results in the employee catching fire or having extra orifii is very rare.
It's more to the point that it should be uncommon to get shocked. I doubt lineman and industrial electricians who work with MV and HV are commonly shocked. Not saying you do, but far too many electricians have a cavalier attitude with 120V: working things hot, taking risks they wouldnt if it were 480V, etc.
Any hypothetical investigation isnt going to focus on 'how many times have you been shocked', it's going to find out why the shock happened. and if it's discovered the event occurred because of lax/non-existent safety policies, working hot, being directed to carry out replacement/repairs while eqpt is energized, etc., that's when it's going to be a problem.
As you write, it is possible to receive a shock even tho you have done nothing improper. Worst one I ever got, I put my sweaty bare hand on a portable air compressor (wasnt running but plugged in) that, unbeknownst to me, had a ground fault, and put my other hand on a metal trailer frame. I was locked to the eqpt (120V), fell away when my legs buckled.
* one of the plant electricians I was good friends with used to have this long, red beard. One day he comes in with it shaved smooth. A fault in a 480V cabinet did it. Aside from the flash he was shocked as well, first time in 22 years.
As others have mentioned, if you assign some commonality to the event of electrical shock, what is going to be implied with that is unsafe conditions/actions on your (or your workers') behalf are also common.
My story was 35 years ago. I've been shocked several times since but that was by my choice to work live. I think now adays you must de energize circuits , lock out tag out. or use ppe. There is no fine line. Accidental? Careless.?? Being an employer. What if the guy got seriously hurt or killed. Are you able to cover it with insurance ? Talk to your guys and get some procedures in place. For my bad shocks in the the beginning I really didn't know what I was doing . I was working for minimum wage helping make employers money. They didn't care about me but know things have changed. You could always just do the work yourself and get rid of the employees. Then these possible mishaps on them would not happen. Or. Up your insurance and training. IMO
- Location
- Massachusetts
I agree 100%
In a case like that if OSHA investigated it would likely assign a fine to the company in control of that compressor.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
First I don't see what you think is so funny. Crap happens. Second a lot of minor incidents happen all the time and are never reported, whether any rules were broken or not that is just the way it is. Do you report every minor cut or bump and bruise you receive while on the job? If so I apologize I guess you are the perfect employee that any employer ever wanted, but I bet you don't. Some of those minor things do end up developing more complications once in a while, whether we like it or not it is what it is.
Doesn't mean the guy that walks up and touches something energized (that isn't supposed to be) did something wrong. I'm not talking just electrical workers or electrical gear here. If you happen to get nailed when you touch some non electrical piping - something went wrong somewhere but wasn't necessarily your fault, and you don't have to be an electrical worker - it will shock the accountant just as easily. Now will there be investigation in to what happened, who may be at fault, fines handed down? If it was not a lost time incident likely not, severe injury or a death, you can almost count on it.
I was just trying to say people still sometimes do get shocked even if there is a good safety plan. Some people are still involved in automobile crashes and some even injured or killed, even if they follow the rules of the road.
JFletcher
Senior Member
- Location
- Williamsburg, VA
It was in my carport not on a jobsite. Found out the receptacle had been improperly wired as well, with a 3 prong plug put on ungrounded (2 wire) NM. That afternoon, after my arms stopped aching, I learned how to wire and installed my first GFCI receptacle.
The compressor was not mounted on the trailer.
- Location
- Massachusetts
I think it is funny that you think that will have any meaning in an accident investigation.
We are not talking about those cases, we are talking about a hospital visit that will result in a workers comp claim which often leads to an OSHA visit
.
No one has said they are perfect.
But there are no accidents to safety investigators.
True, you may receive a shock through no fault of your own. However that makes no difference as OSHA does not fine employees they fine employers. And they can easily fine the company of the employee for lack of training or the company in control of the item that caused the shock.
And OSHA will still apply fines and penalties regardless.
But more to the point it does not sound like the OP has any safety plan.
It's clear he does have a plan already in place. It's right here.
He has a plan to deny wrongdoing. It's obvious to me this plan preeexisted the instance where it is needed.
No remorse. It's a tell I regard as a very dangerous quality. Not having that little voice that tells you when something is wrong. But having that little voice say you can talk your way out of it, that everyone is an idiot and deserves to get screwed.
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This will be my last post in a thread that took a far different turn than what was intended.
This is what I know or have been told.
Employee working on a receptacle (120v) live (he knows better) and it had a loose wire. While tightening the wire he bumps his screwdriver or the side of the receptacle or something that gave him a quick shock. It was told to me, by him, that it did not hold him, did not knock him down, etc. It gave him the quick tingle, he goes about about his business of tightening the screw. He thinks nothing else of it. He goes to a different service call, according to him is feeling fine, just like normal. I send him to my house to pick up a part. He gets out of the truck feeling a little light headed and as he is getting the part he falls over and is found laying on the ground unconscious. He remembers bending over to get the part and the next thing he remembers he is in an ambulance.
The doctors do tests and cannot find anything out of the ordinary. Now, I have not seen any papers from the hospital. I cannot verify what they may or may not say. What I was told (from the employee) the doctors said is that it could have been a delayed reaction to the shock or it could have been because he was dehydrated. (The employee and myself are not at odds. We are not fighting about this. I'm not trying to cover my ass.)
The employee has been released from the hospital and will be back at work today. They only kept him at the hospital for about 36 hours for observation. Again, they do not know (for certain) why this happened. I don't know if they gave an official diagnosis or not. I only know what I have been told by the employee. And for the record, it does not even appear that the employee is trying to push a workers comp claim. However, if so we will let the insurance company deal with it.
Regardless of the perception I may have given, the most important thing to me is that the employee is OK. I stayed in constant touch with him at the hospital.
I didn't know any such thing as a delayed reaction to a shock existed. I guess I meant more of a quick tickle. I likely would have been more understanding if the current had held him or knocked him down or something that appears more serious that bumping the side of a receptacle and going on about your business without a second thought.
My employees are very important to me. I just wanted to know what you all have experienced as far as delayed reactions go.
If his cause of passing out was because of a delayed reaction to the shock that occurred, it has to be very rare because I've never heard of it.
This is what I know or have been told.
Employee working on a receptacle (120v) live (he knows better) and it had a loose wire. While tightening the wire he bumps his screwdriver or the side of the receptacle or something that gave him a quick shock. It was told to me, by him, that it did not hold him, did not knock him down, etc. It gave him the quick tingle, he goes about about his business of tightening the screw. He thinks nothing else of it. He goes to a different service call, according to him is feeling fine, just like normal. I send him to my house to pick up a part. He gets out of the truck feeling a little light headed and as he is getting the part he falls over and is found laying on the ground unconscious. He remembers bending over to get the part and the next thing he remembers he is in an ambulance.
The doctors do tests and cannot find anything out of the ordinary. Now, I have not seen any papers from the hospital. I cannot verify what they may or may not say. What I was told (from the employee) the doctors said is that it could have been a delayed reaction to the shock or it could have been because he was dehydrated. (The employee and myself are not at odds. We are not fighting about this. I'm not trying to cover my ass.)
The employee has been released from the hospital and will be back at work today. They only kept him at the hospital for about 36 hours for observation. Again, they do not know (for certain) why this happened. I don't know if they gave an official diagnosis or not. I only know what I have been told by the employee. And for the record, it does not even appear that the employee is trying to push a workers comp claim. However, if so we will let the insurance company deal with it.
Regardless of the perception I may have given, the most important thing to me is that the employee is OK. I stayed in constant touch with him at the hospital.
I didn't know any such thing as a delayed reaction to a shock existed. I guess I meant more of a quick tickle. I likely would have been more understanding if the current had held him or knocked him down or something that appears more serious that bumping the side of a receptacle and going on about your business without a second thought.
My employees are very important to me. I just wanted to know what you all have experienced as far as delayed reactions go.
If his cause of passing out was because of a delayed reaction to the shock that occurred, it has to be very rare because I've never heard of it.
kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
The fact that they were not finding any other injuries or organ shutdown leans toward it not so much being a delayed reaction to the shock, but is difficult to say for certain. You did mention dehydration, which it very well could have been that.
I'm leaning toward an alien abduction gone awry.
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kwired
Electron manager
- Location
- NE Nebraska
- Occupation
- EC
And it very well could have been, that chance might be pretty slim, yet we really don't know.
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