Depth under concrete

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Stevenfyeager

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United States, Indiana
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electrical contractor
I’m sorry, I’ve been reading the posts related to this topic but still unclear to me.
I have to run circuits in pvc to an outdoor kitchen before a concrete patio is poured.
Is 4” depth below the slab required?
 
Though the code allows the conduit to 'touch' the bottom of the concrete, building codes sometimes frown on this, and the concrete finishers may refuse to pour over your conduit if its not covered. Those cuts they make in concrete is to control where the concrete can 'crack' due to expansion; conduit or anything touching underneath is like a cut, and if the concrete is going to crack it will follow where your conduit is touching it. Best to put the conduit in before they lay the stones.
 
Though the code allows the conduit to 'touch' the bottom of the concrete, building codes sometimes frown on this, and the concrete finishers may refuse to pour over your conduit if its not covered. Those cuts they make in concrete is to control where the concrete can 'crack' due to expansion; conduit or anything touching underneath is like a cut, and if the concrete is going to crack it will follow where your conduit is touching it. Best to put the conduit in before they lay the stones.
I have NEVER had a problem with pipe in a slab.
Do you have a reference for the building that "sometimes frowns on this"? I've never seen a finisher refuse to finish a slab.
 
I have NEVER had a problem with pipe in a slab.
Do you have a reference for the building that "sometimes frowns on this"? I've never seen a finisher refuse to finish a slab.
Ditto
 
Expansion joints are not through cuts, they are usually only a quarter of the slabs thickness.
 
I have NEVER had a problem with pipe in a slab.
Do you have a reference for the building that "sometimes frowns on this"? I've never seen a finisher refuse to finish a sl
I have NEVER had a problem with pipe in a slab.
Do you have a reference for the building that "sometimes frowns on this"? I've never seen a finisher refuse to finish a sl

I have NEVER had a problem with pipe in a slab.
Do you have a reference for the building that "sometimes frowns on this"? I've never seen a finisher refuse to finish a slab.
I was replying to the statement "the PVC could be touching the bottom of the slab'', not that your electrical will 'have problems. Most, including experts here don't know that pipe 'touching the bottom of the slab' is a controlled contraction saw cut. The concrete industry says pipes should be embedded a minimum of 1.5" to prevent such issues.
I should have said inspectors instead of codes when I said, "building codes sometimes frown on this". I stand by my statement and have seen it numerous times while in the Labor's Union back in the 70's, State inspectors (not residential) would not allow the pour if anything was on the bedding, suspended items was fine.
3.2.5.4 Saw cutting joints—Contraction joints in industrial and commercial floors are usually formed by sawing a continuous slot in the slab to result in a weakened plane, below which a crack will form (Fig. 3.7). Further details on saw cutting of joints are given in Section 8.3.12" Fiq. 3-7 on Page 13 shows how all this works, the PVC can act as a 'cut' bottom.

https://www.concrete.org/Portals/0/Files/PDF/3021R_04Ch3.pdf

3.4.6 Pipe and conduit—Water pipe and electrical conduit,
if embedded in the floor, should have at least 1-1/2 in. (38 mm)
of concrete cover on both the top and bottom."
 
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3.4.6 Pipe and conduit—Water pipe and electrical conduit,
if embedded in the floor, should have at least 1-1/2 in. (38 mm)
of concrete cover on both the top and bottom."
That is addressing when conduits are embedded in the concrete, not under it. When we installed conduit in slabs (embedded) we tied it to the bottom the best we could.
 
I was replying to the statement "the PVC could be touching the bottom of the slab'', not that your electrical will 'have problems. Most, including experts here don't know that pipe 'touching the bottom of the slab' is a controlled contraction saw cut.
I agree that if the conduit sticks up above the rest of the concrete substrate, then it will create a region of reduced concrete thickness, which may show up as a surface crack. I would refer to that as "partially embedded in the slab." By "touching the bottom of the slab" I meant that the conduit would be flush with the substrate on top, so there would be no reduction in slab thickness.

Cheers, Wayne
 
That is addressing when conduits are embedded in the concrete, not under it. When we installed conduit in slabs (embedded) we tied it to the bottom the best we cou
The topic in the article I provided is about contractual cracking. The part about embedding is a continuation of the topic of concrete cracking and embedding prevents it from cracking where the pipe or rebar is placed because it's embedded. Those experienced in stone work know that to break sandstone and even block, all one has to do is lightly score the surface from end to end and then hit the two ends with a hammer and it will break in two, following the scored line exactly. Less than a 1/128" mark and i can break a 6 in slab using a hammer. Believe what you want.
 
The topic in the article I provided is about contractual cracking. The part about embedding is a continuation of the topic of concrete cracking and embedding prevents it from cracking where the pipe or rebar is placed because it's embedded. Those experienced in stone work know that to break sandstone and even block, all one has to do is lightly score the surface from end to end and then hit the two ends with a hammer and it will break in two, following the scored line exactly. Less than a 1/128" mark and i can break a 6 in slab using a hammer. Believe what you want.
What's that got to do with the topic at hand? Relief cuts (expansion joints) are deliberate weakening cuts to allow a crack below the surface, (under the cut) they are intended to be a strategically located crack.
None of this has anything to do with a conduit under the slab. There is no code even structural codes that would prohibit it even if it was literally touching the bottom of the pour
 
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