Dining Room Receptacles

[frenchelectrican]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

wow you guys been haveing good debates here and i allready counts the respondes to fourm here it was over a hundred yeah a 100 replys...


anyway that is very instering debate here. i am sure some might want to ask my opion here anyway,,, kitchen and dinning room are allowed to use 20 amp circuits expect lumaires circuit. that what basied on nec and possiblty local addmendent there.

merci, marc

p.s. this is the biggest number of reply i ever see for while

 

[tonyi]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

Originally posted by don_resqcapt19:
My whole points rests on the existence of the exceptions to 210.52(B)(1). If Tony and Mike are correct, then there is no reason for these exceptions to be in the code.

I agree. ex #1 appears superfluous. In a document of this size and complexity its not suprising that this sort of thing would slip by. There's probably dozens of other places where something seems similarly unnecessary because its some legacy phrase that people have just kinda taken for granted for decades.

I proofed uncounted numbers of tech manuals at IBM and sometime what happens is people get so used to looking at something that's been there for a while, it starts to just not register as you're proofing it - your brain kinda takes it for granted that the thing that's been there forever is still OK.

 

[iwire]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

WOW We all got to get a life. the problem I have with that is that the entire requirement for 20 amp kitchen outlets is a design issue.

The code would allow me to put as many outlets as I want on the two 20 amp kitchen circuits.

But the code would not allow me to run dedicated 15 amp circuits for every outlet in the kitchen, at least two if we accept your view would have to be 20s.

Why? wouldn't it be better to have a full 15 amps at every outlet then to have 20 amps spread out among 10 outlets?

My only point is the whole requirement is a design issue. :roll:

How is it a safety issue especially if every outlet beyond the required ones could be on a 15 anyway?

[ October 23, 2003, 06:02 AM: Message edited by: iwire ]

 

[gwz2]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

I still ask - How is the occupant, inspector, etc. going to know which are the required outlets when using appliances ?

Ohh , I think I know.
Go to the panelboard and turn off all of the 15 Amp OCD's and then be sure to use an applicance with a pilot light to know which circuit is energized to use the (energized) appliance circuit.

gwz2

 

[hillbilly]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

I've been following this post right along and I think that I've figured it out, Maybe.
steve

 

[tonyi]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

Originally posted by iwire:
Is it possible that you have lost your objectivity on this issue as you have dug your heels in and are not listening to the number of people disagreeing with you.

I've been listening and trying to understand their arguments. I just don't find them compelling based on the words I read in the code book, because I don't buy the argument that low level paragraphs taken in isolation can be applied to the world.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

Originally posted by iwire:
Why? wouldn't it be better to have a full 15 amps at every outlet then to have 20 amps spread out among 10 outlets?

This is a very good and relevant point.

The problem with this as I see it is the nature of the common duplex receptical - it invites people to plug in two loads. A couple of heavy loads like a microwave and crock pot or big toaster could easily pop a 15A breaker and maybe even a 20A if units were big enough. 1800W microwaves are common as dirt these days.

The code doesn't have much to say about this (other than 210.11(B)), but it would be useful IMO, if the required branch recepticals were staggered along the counter top areas to get the best chance of randomly plugged in stuff being split among the required branches.

Its a bit more wire and more work, so most don't do it and just run one string and then another in different areas of the kitchen. Usually one branch winds up handling the hog share of the heavy loads.

IMO, 15A branches in the kitchen, when present, should be positioned so that there's not a temptation to plug heavy draw things into them. Strictly supplemental type things - like a receptical at the back of a shelf board over a sink where a radio might be plugged in so you don't have cords dangling down into the sink area, a receptical near the top of the fridge for a radio or TV that might be parked there. I would not advocate putting them at the tempting coutertop level unless they were 15A singles on dedicated branches for some specific appliance who's load was known to be within range.

 

[tonyi]

Re: Dining Room Receptacles

Originally posted by gwz2:
I still ask - How is the occupant, inspector, etc. going to know which are the required outlets when using appliances ?

Ohh , I think I know.
Go to the panelboard and turn off all of the 15 Amp OCD's and then be sure to use an applicance with a pilot light to know which circuit is energized to use the (energized) appliance circuit.

gwz2

IMO, putting lower amp supplementals placed where they tempt people to plug high draw appliances in would be a poor design.