Disconnecting means

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codequestion

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Does a non fused disconnect switch loacted first device on load end of utility meter qualify as service disconnecting means?

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electrofelon said:
Yes. In fact it has to be. There is no other option. But you will need overcurrent protection right next to it. Make sure you have 10K fault current or less.
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I have first device on load end of utility meter is non fused disconnect. Downstream load end of the non fused disconnect first device is panelboard with main breaker. Would that be overcurrent protection right next to non fused disconnect or you are talking about something else?

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codequestion said:
I have first device on load end of utility meter is non fused disconnect. Downstream load end of the non fused disconnect first device is panelboard with main breaker. Would that be overcurrent protection right next to non fused disconnect or you are talking about something else?

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Don't have my code book in front of me but IIRC the wording is the OCPD must be "integral or immediately adjacent to" the service disconnect. What is the purpose of the disco?
 
electrofelon said:
Don't have my code book in front of me but IIRC the wording is the OCPD must be "integral or immediately adjacent to" the service disconnect. What is the purpose of the disco?
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230.91

230.91 Location. The service overcurrent device shall be an integral part of the service disconnecting means or shall be located immediately adjacent thereto.
 
electrofelon said:
Don't have my code book in front of me but IIRC the wording is the OCPD must be "integral or immediately adjacent to" the service disconnect. What is the purpose of the disco?
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I have panelboard with main breaker located inside of the building but its not near the point of service conductor enterance per NEC 230.70 (A)(1).

So decided to put non fused disconnect load end of the electric utility right next to the electric utility meter. So it serves purpose of service equipment disconnecting means outside.

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codequestion said:
I have panelboard with main breaker located inside of the building but its not near the point of service conductor enterance per NEC 230.70 (A)(1).

So decided to put non fused disconnect load end of the electric utility right next to the electric utility meter. So it serves purpose of service equipment disconnecting means outside.

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IMO that's not gunna fly. There has been some debate about what "immediately adjacent thereto" means. Many feel the two components being on the opposite side of a wall is not what they mean. Maybe your AHJ is ok with it, you will have to check with them. What size and amp service?

Edit: Reread you post. If you are not nearest the point of entry, then it sounds like you are not even "back to back". I don't see how that could ever be considered "immediately adjacent thereto".
 
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electrofelon said:
IMO that's not gunna fly. There has been some debate about what "immediately adjacent thereto" means. Many feel the two components being on the opposite side of a wall is not what they mean. Maybe your AHJ is ok with it, you will have to check with them. What size and amp service?

Edit: Reread you post. If you are not nearest the point of entry, then it sounds like you are not even "back to back". I don't see how that could ever be considered "immediately adjacent thereto".
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400 amps 120/208V three phase. I am going to suggest to put 400 amps fused disconnect as nentioned in NEC 230.91. If they do then this should not be problem.

Now they would have to relocate service system ground from panelboard to the service disconnecting means outside.

Geez what a mess!

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codequestion said:
400 amps 120/208V three phase. I am going to suggest to put 400 amps fused disconnect as nentioned in NEC 230.91. If they do then this should not be problem.

Now they would have to relocate service system ground from panelboard to the service disconnecting means outside.

Geez what a mess!

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Yes and Yes.
Only other option I can think of is if you can encase the conductors in concrete, then they would be considered "outside" and you could skip the outside disco.
 
electrofelon said:
Yes and Yes.
Only other option I can think of is if you can encase the conductors in concrete, then they would be considered "outside" and you could skip the outside disco.
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Its existing building not sure how can they be brought inside to room in the middle encased in concrete. They would be above ground routed overhead.

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codequestion said:
Its existing building not sure how can they be brought inside to room in the middle encased in concrete. They would be over head above ground to route inside. By the what article says if service conductors are in encased in concrete then they are outside?

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230.6. Had an 800 amp service, about 10 feet inside to the service panelboard. I knew it was a stretch, so we were prepared to box it in with concrete if we got called on it. We didn't get called on though. When you get into 800 amp stuff, that concrete truck starts looking pretty cheap...
 
electrofelon said:
230.6. Had an 800 amp service, about 10 feet inside to the service panelboard. I knew it was a stretch, so we were prepared to box it in with concrete if we got called on it. We didn't get called on though. When you get into 800 amp stuff, that concrete truck starts looking pretty cheap...
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Ok I can see that where there is no foundation, empty land and building is going to be built but how can you do 2 in concrete with existing building already built?

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codequestion said:
Ok I can see that where there is no foundation, empty land and building is going to be built but how can you do 2 in concrete with existing building already built?

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Well in the case I mentioned in the previous post, the service conduits were strapped to a brick wall. If we had two we would box them in with concrete. Only need 2 inches. For only 400 amp, may not be worth it. A 400 amp disco is going to hurt a little, but not too bad. Sometimes you do it for space too, i.e. if you have no space outside for a disconnect. How far are we talking?
 
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