dishwasher feed

[gserve]

Where in the 2005 code does it state that romex cannot directly feed the dishwasher(romex in wall wired directly to the dishwasher junction box)or is it just a protection issue and needs to be sleeved in flex from wall to dishwasher JB?

 

[macmikeman]

Re: dishwasher feed

If protection was the issue, would not then the cords of plug and cord connected dishwashers be also subject to the same?

 

[iwire]

Re: dishwasher feed

I don't think you will find anything that says that.

It is (or was) a typical way to connect a DW here in MA.

Of course if an inspector deems it is subject to physical damage all bets are off. IMO that is an extreme call as all the factory wiring under the DW is open.

 

[infinity]

Re: dishwasher feed

In answer to your question it is a perfectly acceptable way to wire a dishwasher. But it might present a disconnecting means issue if the OFF position on the DW does not fully disconnect the appliance from the source.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: dishwasher feed

I stick a switch for the dishwasher under the sink, usually in a two gang box, so I can put the disposal plug in the same box.Then I clearly label the faceplate. It is a teeny bit of a stretch to say it is in direct line of sight of the appliance, but if you sit in front of the dishwasher and the sink cabinet door is open, you can directly see both at the same time. A plumber removing the dishwasher for service will unhook the plumbing lines for the unit under the sink before he tries to slip the unit out. Thats where he can see my labeled disco switch for the dishwasher. The code allows for cord and plug connection of course, but personally I do not like leaving so cords behind and out of sight of an appliance that might not get looked at for more than 10 years. I do not have that same fear for the romex.

 

[iwire]

Re: dishwasher feed

Originally posted by macmikeman:
I do not like leaving so cords behind and out of sight of an appliance that might not get looked at for more than 10 years. I do not have that same fear for the romex.

I am with you on that for sure, I have come across SO cord that was hidden for only a few years and found it had already stiffened up.

 

[mdshunk]

Re: dishwasher feed

Originally posted by iwire:
I am with you on that for sure, I have come across SO cord that was hidden for only a few years and found it had already stiffened up.

It is for that reason that I use premanufactured cordsets that are constructed with SJT (thermoplastic, same as romex).

 

[volt102]

Re: dishwasher feed

If hardwired, how many of you actually drive a staple in the tile or side of cabinet to secure the romex 12" from the junction box on the dishwasher?
When the house is roughed in, the dishwasher is normally not even picked out yet, so you you?don't know if the word "off" is on the unit switch, and if the unit switch even disconnects the all the power from the unit. What I am getting at is a breaker lock might be needed if you don't put a disconnection means at the dishwasher.
For me, if the dishwasher is next to the sink, I run a 3 wire to a split receptacle under the sink for the disposal and the dishwasher, two pole breaker (less money then two single poles and a handle tie) Cord and plug the washer, It makes it easy to inspect it that way.
Jim

 

[George Stolz]

Re: dishwasher feed

Originally posted by volt102:
If hardwired, how many of you actually drive a staple in the tile or side of cabinet to secure the romex 12" from the junction box on the dishwasher?

Guilty.

For me, if the dishwasher is next to the sink...

Ditto.

 

[macmikeman]

Re: dishwasher feed

Guilty.

Me too.

 

[sparky_magoo]

Re: dishwasher feed

Help me out guys, I always install a cord and plug it into a receptacle for the dishwasher connection.
I am presently doing a house with a kitchen island.
The dishwasher is offset from the sink. Is there any reason why I can't install a cord on the dishwasher and plug it into a receptacle.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: dishwasher feed

Magoo, it's permissible.

 

[sparky_magoo]

Re: dishwasher feed

Thanx George, I need to clarify. My boss claims I am in violation because I am modifieing an appliance
from hard wired to cord connected. I don't see the difference. I am knocking out a 1/2 " KO and inserting a two-screw instaead of a RC-50. Whats the difference?

 

[George Stolz]

Re: dishwasher feed

None I can see.

I suppose the listing of the appliance might play in (as the code suggests), but I fail to see a safety hazard with cord-and-plug connecting them.

Besides, you're not "modifying" the appliance. There is a 1/2" hole to connect to premises wiring. You're not chopping a cord off an appliance and hard-wiring it.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Re: dishwasher feed

While we're on the subject of kitchens and s/a circuits...

Can additional auxiliary small appliance circuits installed in a kitchen be shared with small appliance circuits on an outdoor kitchen?

I entertain. I have a large service counter which I set up coffeepots and food warmers and such, with 3 20a duplexes each on their own individual circuit. (These are in addition to 2 regular, original s/a circuits)

Now I find myself entertaining outdoors, and off the kitchen I've built a outdoor kitchenette with BBQ and a small beer fridge and a sink, ... and I'd like to carry those 3 indoor circuits outside for the same purpose.

With the sliders open I consider the indoor and outdoor areas one big kitchen.

If the answer is nay, then it looks like I'll be adding a SECOND sub-panel. GRRRR.

 

[George Stolz]

Re: dishwasher feed

I don't think this is another kitchen.

I believe you could use one of your SA circuits for this. I'm interested to see what others think.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Re: dishwasher feed

I want to use all 3. Either I'm entertaining indoors or outdoors, but not both I only have 4 arms.

I've got 3 dedicated 20a circuits for just this purpose in the indoor kitchen. Branching off all 3 of those to the outdoor kitchen where I would generally be doing the same thing outdoors as I would indoors.

Similar to the old exception where a 20a 240v electric bb heater could also feed a 20a 240v a/c receptacle because it would be unlikely both would be utilized simultaniously.

Except in this case, a 20a or even 3 20a circuits could be used simultaniously. Because the issue here is placement and location, not load.

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: dishwasher feed

You can''t use the sa circuits to feed more than one kitchen. You can't use them to feed outdoor recptacles. I think you would have a hard time convincing an inspector that it is all one kitchen.

 

[charlie b]

Re: dishwasher feed

Originally posted by electricmanscott: You can't use the SA circuits to feed more than one kitchen.

I think you can. I look at SA circuits backwards, in the following sense. I don't start with, "This is an SA circuit, so therefore what can I supply with it?" Rather, I ask, "Is this room a Kitchen? It is a Pantry? Is it a Breakfast Room? Is it a Dining Room?" If I get a "Yes" answer, then I say that all circuits that supply wall, floor, or countertop receptacles in that room are, by definition, "SA circuits."

In this case, when I look at the "Outdoor Kitchenette," I get a "Yes" to the first question. So the circuits that supply the receptacles in that space are, by definition, SA circuits. Nothing prevents me from supplying those receptacles with one of the five SA circuits that presently serve the indoor kitchen (i.e., the two required circuits and the three extras supplying one duplex receptacle each).

Nothing in the NEC prohibits a single family dwelling unit from having more than one kitchen.

(You can't use the SA circuits) . . . to feed outdoor receptacles.

Here again, I must disagree. Nothing in the NEC says that a kitchen must be indoors.

NOTE: The receptacles in the outdoor kitchen have to all be GFCI, even if their counterparts in the indoor kitchen do not have to be GFCI.

 

[LawnGuyLandSparky]

Re: dishwasher feed

Well I agree with you Charlie B. I did know that SA circuits could feed all that you mentioned, in fact, I've wired secondary kitchens which were for religious holidays - Kosher kitchens- using the same sa branch circuits as the original kitchen. (Yes, that's Kosher )

It's the outdoor outlet/ sa mixing thing that puzzles me.

And here, all sa circuits must be GFCI protected anywhere within the kitchen unless inaccessable. (behind fridge)