dishwasher wiring

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sparkync

Senior Member
Location
North Carolina
Dumb question I guess, but as long as I come off of the "load" side of a GFCI outlet under the sink, can I "direct" wire the dishwasher?
Will the reset serve as a disconnect for it or will I need a cord and plug attached to the dishwasher to provide an acceptable disconnect for it?
I'm going to be setting an outlet that will be "switched" for a garbage disposal also under the sink, but the dishwasher will be "hot" controlled by the switch on the dishwasher. I know we used to provide a switch up above the counter for a disconnect years ago before it was required to be GFI protected.
Thanks
 
X

xformer

Senior Member
Location
Dallas, Tx
Occupation
Master Electrician
sparkync said:
Dumb question I guess, but as long as I come off of the "load" side of a GFCI outlet under the sink, can I "direct" wire the dishwasher?
Will the reset serve as a disconnect for it or will I need a cord and plug attached to the dishwasher to provide an acceptable disconnect for it?
I'm going to be setting an outlet that will be "switched" for a garbage disposal also under the sink, but the dishwasher will be "hot" controlled by the switch on the dishwasher. I know we used to provide a switch up above the counter for a disconnect years ago before it was required to be GFI protected.
Thanks
Click to expand...
IMHO.. The GFCI is required to be readily accessible.
 
Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Seven-Delta-FortyOne

Goin’ Down In Flames........
Location
Humboldt
Occupation
EC and GC
Forgive me if I’ve gotten this wrong, but……


The test button is not an approved
disconnect.

How are you going to wire the receptacle to be switched, but keep the DW live, on the line side of the GFCI?

How did you plan to hardwire into a receptacle box, that has a recep in it, and comply with attachment requirements?


If I’m understanding you correctly, no, this ain’t gonna fly. 🤣
 
infinity

infinity

Moderator
Staff member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Journeyman Electrician
You need two things GFCI protection and a disconnecting means. The device under the sink will qualify as the GFCI protection but not as the disconnect unless it has a separate switch with a marked ON/OFF.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
sparkync said:
Dumb question I guess, but as long as I come off of the "load" side of a GFCI outlet under the sink, can I "direct" wire the dishwasher?
Will the reset serve as a disconnect for it or will I need a cord and plug attached to the dishwasher to provide an acceptable disconnect for it?
I'm going to be setting an outlet that will be "switched" for a garbage disposal also under the sink, but the dishwasher will be "hot" controlled by the switch on the dishwasher. I know we used to provide a switch up above the counter for a disconnect years ago before it was required to be GFI protected.
Thanks
Click to expand...


You don't need gfci on a dishwasher in NC

You can use a breaker lock at the panel as the disconnect.
 
L

letgomywago

Senior Member
Location
Washington state and Oregon coast
Occupation
residential electrician
So here under a kitchen sink has been defined as readily accessible. I have done this in 2 instances where the dishwasher was around the corner of where the sink cabinet is. A receptacle behind the dishwasher that is on the load side of the gfi under the sink then have a cord on the dishwasher to satisfy the disconnect. The other option Is a breaker lock which isn't that expensive honestly. I've never understood why people shy away from that way of doing a disconnect so often.
 
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winnie

Senior Member
Location
Springfield, MA, USA
Occupation
Electric motor research
infinity said:
You need two things GFCI protection and a disconnecting means. The device under the sink will qualify as the GFCI protection but not as the disconnect unless it has a separate switch with a marked ON/OFF.
Click to expand...

As I recall, some GFCI devices (perhaps only blank face ones) have the buttons marked ON and OFF rather than RESET and TEST. If marked ON and OFF then the GFCI device is considered a switch and qualifies as a disconnecting means.

See for example https://www.leviton.com/en/products/gfrbf-w

Jon
 
Fred B

Fred B

Senior Member
Location
Upstate, NY
Occupation
Electrician
winnie said:
As I recall, some GFCI devices (perhaps only blank face ones) have the buttons marked ON and OFF rather than RESET and TEST. If marked ON and OFF then the GFCI device is considered a switch and qualifies as a disconnecting means.

See for example https://www.leviton.com/en/products/gfrbf-w

Jon
Click to expand...
True but I have a question as to use as a "disconnect" for safety reasons. Is there a LOTO available for this type of switch?
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
winnie said:
As I recall, some GFCI devices (perhaps only blank face ones) have the buttons marked ON and OFF rather than RESET and TEST. If marked ON and OFF then the GFCI device is considered a switch and qualifies as a disconnecting means.

See for example https://www.leviton.com/en/products/gfrbf-w

Jon
Click to expand...
But can you open the contacts when there is no supply side voltage? Can it fail in a manner that won't allow it to open the contacts?

Maybe still allowed but those are not typical problems you might have with the more recognized disconnect methods.
 
C

curt swartz

Electrical Contractor - San Jose, CA
Location
San Jose, CA
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
winnie said:
As I recall, some GFCI devices (perhaps only blank face ones) have the buttons marked ON and OFF rather than RESET and TEST. If marked ON and OFF then the GFCI device is considered a switch and qualifies as a disconnecting means.

See for example https://www.leviton.com/en/products/gfrbf-w

Jon
Click to expand...
The blank face devices with marked on/off button are suitable for use as a controller. They are not suitable for a disconnecting means since they require power to function.
 
Dennis Alwon

Dennis Alwon

Moderator
Staff member
Location
Chapel Hill, NC
Occupation
Retired Electrical Contractor
A disconnect is only needed if the unit switch doesn't disconnect the power. Does anyone know why a unit switch would not disconnect all the power? I found a diagram but I can't read these schematics very well. It looks like it may pass power to something but what it is I don't know.

1645020804283.png
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Fred B said:
Don't think that's a NEC requirement, NFPA 70E and OSHA though.
Click to expand...
NEC doesn't have any LOTO requirements. Closest thing is when they require lockable means when not "within sight" but that isn't exactly a LOTO requirement either.

Other LOTO protocols allow methods the NEC doesn't even take into consideration. For example NEC considers cord and plug to be a disconnection method, but doesn't care if you have other requirement by other standards to put a lockable cover on the plug after disconnecting it.

So a LOTO for the GFCI in question here (presuming the GFCI complies as a disconnecting means) would be beyond the scope of NEC but still could be a requirement from some other standard. Some sort of lockable cover might be acceptable. One thing that comes to mind is some weatherproof type covers could possibly be utilized here. I know I have seen some that have lock hasp on the cover.
 
kwired

kwired

Electron manager
Location
NE Nebraska
Dennis Alwon said:
A disconnect is only needed if the unit switch doesn't disconnect the power. Does anyone know why a unit switch would not disconnect all the power? I found a diagram but I can't read these schematics very well. It looks like it may pass power to something but what it is I don't know.

View attachment 2559466
Click to expand...
Not many (maybe even none) dishwashers have a "unit switch" AFAIK.

Most anymore have electronic controls and no true mechanical control switches. Simpler and typically older units with a mechanical time switch may have qualified though.
 
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