dishwashers

[jmcelectric]

i have an inspector who is telling me that a receptacle installed behind the dishwasher is not accessible because the water and drain lines may have to be disconnected to remove the dishwasher. i don't see anything in the code that prohibits this installation,any help would be appreciated.

 

[ryan_618]

Re: dishwashers

422.16(B)(2)(4) seems to agree with you, and so do I.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: dishwashers

I have seen dish washers wired in a few ways.
1. direct wire on dedicated breaker with a lockout.
2. a receptacle just under the sink and cord ran thru a hole
3.a receptacle in a handy box laying on the floor to cord connect(i am not sure that's legal but seen it in Sarasota.
4.your way i have not seen.It is accessible but somewhat of a hazard to reach in there.Many live wires and connections under them.
Suggestion ,remove outlet and use as junction box and add wire so you can direct connect.
Check AHJ first as some may not permit this.

 

[a.wayne3@verizon.net]

Re: dishwashers

I had the same situation recently,We have cord connections all of our d/w`s and disposals to get inspections if appliances are not there.But recently we got a correction notice.D/W needs a breaker lock out.I called the inspector to ask what was up ?? He told me that since a panel had to be removed to unplug the D/W it was not readily accesable and that a lock out was needed.I thought about it and well I install breaker locks for all our D/W`s now.

 

[mjf]

Re: dishwashers

What is a breaker lock?

 

[ryan_618]

Re: dishwashers

A breaker lock is a device that allows a single breaker to be locked in the off position.

 

[jmcelectric]

Re: dishwashers

I don't see anywhere in 422-16(b)(2)that says anything about being readily accessable, only accessible.it also says as a condition (d)the receptacle shall be located in the space occupied by the appliance or adjacent thereto.the only place to mount a receptacle in the space occupied by the appliance is down low behind the appliance.if i take the kick space off the dishwasher i can get at the receptacle.does this mean accessible?

 

[roger]

Re: dishwashers

Jmcelectric, I agree with you too. I guess refridgerators with ice makers may be a problem with this inspectors self made code.

Roger

 

[electricman2]

Re: dishwashers

jmcelectric, I'm with you. As Roger pointed out it only has to be accessible. I have done it the same way with no problem.

 

[luke warmwater]

Re: dishwashers

jmcelectric, roger, and others, I agree with you on the 'accessible' CODE.
We almost always hardwire the dishwasher and disposal here, and it has never been an issue.

But, to argue the point of taking the front cover off and being able to reach a receptacle, just today, we had (2) DW's in the same kitchen, took the front covers off to hard wire, and these units have all of the controls and motor completely shrouded in unremoveable (at least from the front) guards, making it impossible to get to anything under the unit.
And we couldn't get the units pulled out far enough to get to the whip. The plumber already had the supplys hooked up and there was no slack in the supply lines.
Since upon arrival the GC's foreman stated that our wires were at the front of the units (and they were not), he became a plumber for 1/2 an hour.

 

[hurk27]

Re: dishwashers

I'm following this thread and what I can't figure is if these receptacles don't have to be accessable from the front of an appliance then why the requirment with a range in 422.33(B) ?

 

[tonyi]

Re: dishwashers

I think I'd just put another switch for the DW up with the disposal switch if the location of the receptical couldn't be off to the side somewhere. That's a $.75 fix that cures all possible complaints

 

[jimwalker]

Re: dishwashers

What ever happened to the old trick of split duplex under the sink ?12-3 HR break red at switch for the pig,stub 12-3 out ,after cabinet install 4x4 with raised cover.Then just plug in.

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: dishwashers

How some AHJ's are addressing this.

A breaker lock or a switch to disconnect the D/W.

Mike P.

 

[jimwalker]

Re: dishwashers

Cheap way is breaker lock out.
But how safe will this really be to the appliance repair man.I just can't see him making a long trip downstairs or where ever every time he needs to turn it on or off.And will he even carry a pad lock ?

 

[electricmanscott]

Re: dishwashers

Dishwasher receptacle behind dishwasher perfectly acceptable according to NEC. No need for breaker lock, wall switch, or inspector bitching!

 

[jxofaltrds]

Re: dishwashers

Scott

Not around here. Some are requiring what I have stated above.

IMHO. In a residential application, how many people are going to have access to the panel if service work is being performed?????

Unless your are watching that ACE Hardware commercial.

Mike P.

 

[ccha9219]

Re: dishwashers

I do agree with you (and everyone else)
from what I have seen some inspectors wont allow it for safety reasons, although it complies with the code it is still 'up to the local body holding jurisdiction' to make the final call

 

[iwire]

Re: dishwashers

Do you even need a disconnect at the dishwasher?

422.34 Unit Switch(es) as Disconnecting Means.
A unit switch(es) with a marked-off position that is a part of an appliance and disconnects all ungrounded conductors shall be permitted as the disconnecting means required by this article where other means for disconnection are provided in the following types of occupancies.

(C) One-Family Dwellings. In one-family dwellings, the service disconnecting means shall be permitted to be the other disconnecting means.

 

[jmcelectric]

Re: dishwashers

i talked to the inspector yesterday and he said as long as i can pull out the dw without disconnecting the plumbing feed and drain he will accept it.my problem with this whole scenario is an inspector who ,whether you follow the code or not,wants more than what is required.why have a code at all.we can all go ask each and every ahj what they would like.he now is telling me that he won't allow ser cable as feeders to the apartment load centers, he wants mc cable!!??