DIY Home Generator Hookup (youtube)

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kwired

kwired

Electron manager
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NE Nebraska
GoldDigger said:
I suspect that HD does not know what advice he is giving, since the liability would be on them too.
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Is there any liability on them? I'm no attorney, but I think all they need is a simple disclaimer posted somewhere and it is a good start at getting out of any liability. I'm sure HD has attorneys that have looked into such things and have given them suggestions as to what to do do help limit any liability.
 
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GoldDigger

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kwired said:
Is there any liability on them? I'm no attorney, but I think all they need is a simple disclaimer posted somewhere and it is a good start at getting out of any liability. I'm sure HD has attorneys that have looked into such things and have given them suggestions as to what to do do help limit any liability.
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You can put up all the disclaimers you want, and it is probably a good idea to do so. But the guy is acting under their employment and if he is violating their rules by giving advice, they need to stop him once they have been notified of it. If they allow their employees to give advice like that, no disclaimer will keep them from being sued, but it might affect the outcome. :)
 
Little Bill

Little Bill

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charlie b said:
I don't plan to watch the video. I can guess what it shows. Taking it off u-tube won't help, since it is not the first time someone has published this type of procedure, and it won't be the last. I have a co-worker who has used the widow-maker to connect his RV's generator to his home. I tried to talk him out of it, but he insists he knows he needs to shut off the main breaker.

I prefer to call this thing a "widow-maker," rather than a "suicide cord." I suspect that the tragic deaths from its use are more often the linemen than the homeowners. I further suspect that the homeowners never discover that they were the cause of a tragic death.
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Charlie, you're thoughts are good, but the "suicide cord" or "widow maker" as you call it, are not a problem/danger to a lineman. They are a danger to whomever is plugging them in.

They are called "suicide cords" because the male end that plugs in to the receptacle is hot. If someone were to start the generator before plugging it in and grabbed the hot male end, then is where your "widow maker" could come in to play.:happysad:

But the whole concept of ignorant (but who think they know) persons connecting generators in this fashion without a means to prevent back feeding the grid, are what is of concern here.
 
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ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
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Little Bill said:
Charlie, you're thoughts are good, but the "suicide cord" or "widow maker" as you call it, are not a problem/danger to a lineman.
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What about this scenario: Power goes down to the house because of a problem at the transformer at the pole (the rest of the grid is unaffected). Homeowner plugs in generator and starts it up without opening his disco/main breaker. Lineman goes up pole to fix problem and doesn't know the feeder to the house is energized by the genny.
 
readydave8

readydave8

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ggunn said:
What about this scenario: Power goes down to the house because of a problem at the transformer at the pole (the rest of the grid is unaffected). Homeowner plugs in generator and starts it up without opening his disco/main breaker. Lineman goes up pole to fix problem and doesn't know the feeder to the house is energized by the genny.
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Or HO plugs in generator after lineman has already confirmed no voltage and started working.
 
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ghorwood

Member
Location
Houston, Texas
Electrical supply house for amateurs

Electrical supply house for amateurs

HD, Lowes et al should not be selling electrical supplies to unlicensed amateurs. It is amazing that any idiot can walk in there and buy enough material to DIY a 200 amp sevice. "You can burn the house down, we can help." Man. Build a deck or plant some flowers, but stay out of the electrical department.
 
qcroanoke

qcroanoke

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Location
Roanoke, VA.
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Sorta retired........
Or HO shoots lineman off pole cause he looked like a bear.......
We can "what if" this to death.
People are gonna do it and we cant stop 'em.
Lowes and Home Depot not be allowed to sell electrical supplies?
Not gonna happen....
 
H

hurk27

Senior Member
Location
Portage, Indiana NEC: 2008
readydave8 said:
Reason for my "what if" was that it happened locally a few years ago.
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Three electricians in Florida was charged with involuntary man slaughter and got 15 years each for installing a back feed generator hook up's that killed three line men during Hurricane Charlie, It was posted about it on here back then, but I can't seem to find the article now, it's not just the liability but the fact you can be charge criminally, and the fact you have to live with the knowledge of killing someone for the rest of your life because you took a cheap way out.
 
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GoldDigger

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hurk27 said:
Three electricians in Florida was charged with involuntary man slaughter and got 15 years each for installing a back feed generator hook up's that killed three line men during Hurricane Charlie, It was posted about it on here back then, but I can't seem to find the article now, ...
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Did some Googling. Found your earlier post on the subject back in 2010: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=127286&p=1215789#post1215789

Also only found one official document about a specific lineman's electrocution. Other references were second or third hand. In the one I found, there was no mention of any penalties against the homeowner, but the company the lineman worked for was fined a total of $12,000 for willful violation of proper working procedures. (Despite being able to hear generators all around, the lineman treated the damaged HV line as non-energized once the section had been isolated from the rest of the 7220 and supposedly grounded at both ends. When he cut the remaining unbroken but sagging line working from a lift and wearing only leather gloves he was electrocuted.)
I do not understand how the generator was able to keep running and energize the line if it had in fact been grounded.
 
G

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
GoldDigger said:
Did some Googling. Found your earlier post on the subject back in 2010: http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=127286&p=1215789#post1215789

Also only found one official document about a specific lineman's electrocution. Other references were second or third hand. In the one I found, there was no mention of any penalties against the homeowner, but the company the lineman worked for was fined a total of $12,000 for willful violation of proper working procedures. (Despite being able to hear generators all around, the lineman treated the damaged HV line as non-energized once the section had been isolated from the rest of the 7220 and supposedly grounded at both ends. When he cut the remaining unbroken but sagging line working from a lift and wearing only leather gloves he was electrocuted.)
I do not understand how the generator was able to keep running and energize the line if it had in fact been grounded.
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Seems to me that could happen if the generator end were not referenced to ground; there would be line to line potential only.
 
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EV607797

Member
Location
Fredericksburg, VA
I have to say with complete certainty that the video exhibits some of the most dangerous and/or generally improper practices that I've ever seen. 40 amp breaker on #10 wire (OK, the gen set can limit that), inexperienced person working dangerously close to exposed bus bar and terminals, suicide cord, improper plate for the receptacle because he was "too cheap to buy the proper one, the list goes on. I can't believe how bad that one is.

Not to mention that his "installation" makes dangerous assumptions that the person who actually ends up setting this up really knows what they are doing and the possible repercussions as the result of a mistake (kids for example). It stinks to high heaven.

I sure hope that someone takes that video down before someone gets killed.
 
G

ggunn

PE (Electrical), NABCEP certified
Location
Austin, TX, USA
Occupation
Electrical Engineer - Photovoltaic Systems
EV607797 said:
I have to say with complete certainty that the video exhibits some of the most dangerous and/or generally improper practices that I've ever seen. 40 amp breaker on #10 wire (OK, the gen set can limit that), inexperienced person working dangerously close to exposed bus bar and terminals, suicide cord, improper plate for the receptacle because he was "too cheap to buy the proper one, the list goes on. I can't believe how bad that one is.

Not to mention that his "installation" makes dangerous assumptions that the person who actually ends up setting this up really knows what they are doing and the possible repercussions as the result of a mistake (kids for example). It stinks to high heaven.

I sure hope that someone takes that video down before someone gets killed.
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Who would take it down? I don't think that videos posted on YouTube are vetted for safety.
 
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