do i charge for second visit

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Split Bolt said:
Hi brantmacga, I have to respectively disagree with you. My clients DO rave about me to their friends/neighbors/relatives! Maybe the whole "Southern Hospitality" thing is a myth. Or maybe you are attracting the wrong customers! Customer service with a smile might be old fashioned, but it works for me. It's not like I go around doing things for free all the time, but every once in a while taking an hour to make someone happy really pays off! Reasonable people would not "expect" free service every time as a result. I have, on occasion, in cases like that, gone out to my van to get 6 or 8 business cards. I hand them to the customer and say "here is your bill, give these cards to your neighbors and friends." They actually do it! Customers are not your enemy, they are the SOLE reason your company exists!:)
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That's great that it works this way for you but as a rule it's a bunch of nonsense.

Me, I do this for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Period. Next customer that want's a freebie I'll give them your card. :D
 
So you say you are in it for the money, think of it like this (your mileage may vary

So you say you are in it for the money, think of it like this (your mileage may vary

electricmanscott said:
That's great that it works this way for you but as a rule it's a bunch of nonsense.

Me, I do this for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Period. Next customer that want's a freebie I'll give them your card. :D
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Nonsense??? Hmmm...

I have started to track what I do for "free" and see how much referrals I get from those people.

I do very little for free, however, when I do a favor I get referrals that net me thousands of dollars (profit) in referrals. So, I carefully pick and choose, but so far I am much richer for it, literally.

We both live in New England, so its not a regional thing.
 
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electricmanscott said:
That's great that it works this way for you but as a rule it's a bunch of nonsense.

Me, I do this for one reason and one reason only, to make money. Period. Next customer that want's a freebie I'll give them your card. :D
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Scott,

It may be possible that some of the guys giving away their time are not supporting their families with the business, or they may have other jobs, or other means of support, or just are not taking business serious.
 
Split Bolt said:
Or maybe you are attracting the wrong customers!
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Ha! And how do you suggest attracting the right customer? Should I put something in the yellow page ad about "tightwads need not call"? ;)


Don't take it from me; any business person in america can confirm what I've said.

There are great customers out there and we do have many, but my customers range from dirt poor to multi-millionaires; I don't get to pick and choose who to work with (well, sometimes i do ;) ). As long as their money is green I don't care. The funny thing is, the ones who live modestly are the customers that can afford our services and wouldn't complain about having to charge them in the situation we're discussing. I cringe most times we pull up to a mcmansion because I know this guy is going to show us the door when we give a quote. Not always, but the majority of the time that's how it is.


I hope my attitude doesn't discourage you, as my approach was once the same as yours, but after a few years you learn that people are all the same and doing free work is like lighting a fuse on a bomb. A lot of these people honest to God think we're like uncle scrooge mcduck swimming in a silo of gold coins when we get home.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.
 
Split Bolt said:
... Customers are not your enemy, they are the SOLE reason your company exists!:)
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Too many people in any business forget that anymore.

brantmacga said:
...
There are great customers out there and we do have many, but my customers range from dirt poor to multi-millionaires; I don't get to pick and choose who to work with (well, sometimes i do ;) ). As long as their money is green I don't care. The funny thing is, the ones who live modestly are the customers that can afford our services and wouldn't complain about having to charge them in the situation we're discussing. I cringe most times we pull up to a mcmansion because I know this guy is going to show us the door when we give a quote. ...
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I have had many people that appear to be reasonably wealthy that are the biggest tightwads ever, I guess there is a reason why they have money:grin:

I have also had people that appear to not be able to afford much that end up with a big repair bill and may not be able to pay all at once, but will eventually pay without any complaints.

Even had a lady that had not completely paid yet, and then moved a fairly long distance away - I thought I would never see any money from her again, but she kept paying me each month until it was all paid.
 
I probably would not charge. since the fan had only been up 2 days.
Yes really you should , because it was no error on your part.
I call it buying a little advertisement.
People will talk one way or another,I would rather eat the second install,as have the bad P.R.
 
I've been in business a while. The first time around was from Feb. of 1989 to Nov. of 1999, so a couple of months shy of 11 years. Then I closed it down for personal reasons, not the least of which was my impending divorce. I didn't want to be forced to become a business partner with my ex wife!:grin: I worked with a friend for the next 6 years. (and got re-married!) This time around, I have been at it for exactly 5 years next week. I've chosen to remain small, doing mostly service work. I make a LOT more money doing that than sub-contracting! I only work with 2 contractors and that is only T&M. I've had MANY employees over those years, but still haven't had the one that I felt I could grow the business with.:-? As far as "attracting the right customers," I don't know how to work that, I think it is mostly luck. I, for some reason, seem to attract the wrong employees! I don't pay for ANY advertising anymore, it is 100% referrals from existing customers and my supply house. The phone slows down from time to time, but most of the time there's more than I can handle.

Going back to the OP though, I NEVER said I go around every day working for free! That's ridiculous. What I'm saying is that every now & then (maybe twice a month?) I will give a customer a break when something happens that is really not their fault! As some of the other people have said, this is a business decision that MAY pay off exponentially! It may not, that's the gamble! Why is it that we don't think twice about going to a job to give a free estimate, where we have no idea whether or not we'll get the job, but we do have a problem taking an hour to make a customer (who has already given you the $$$) happy? Think of it as advertising! :)
 
maybe the good will is worth it, but I'd be sure to explain carefully why I should be charging another service call before I gave it to them, otherwise they don't know the size of the favor I did and will be less likely to remember. I do this ocassionaly, but am not interested in making new personal friends.
 
Everyone has their own situation. I live in a low population area. If I do someone a favor I probably already know them, if I don't know them I do know some of their friends or relatives. I have to be nice to all my customers. If I really make someone angry the whole county will eventually find out, but it will be through gossip and the story will not be correct at all.
 
kwired said:
Everyone has their own situation. I live in a low population area. If I do someone a favor I probably already know them, if I don't know them I do know some of their friends or relatives. I have to be nice to all my customers. If I really make someone angry the whole county will eventually find out, but it will be through gossip and the story will not be correct at all.
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Exactly. In my line of work a lot of my biz comes from referrals and word of mouth, I would rather take a small loss on a re-visit than tick off a customer who can tell a lot of others bad things. And in most cases where I had not intended to charge the customer offers a gratuity or to split the cost.

Everyone's situation is different. If the OP is doing well and can afford to not charge for the return trip it would be building goodwill to not charge. If his business is struggling though, it would be wiser to negotiate a price for the swap out.
 
Of course you charge

Of course you charge

I get frustrated with electricians; it seems as a whole we way under value the service that we perform.
If I bought an alternator for my truck from Auto-Zone and took it to my mechanic and had him install it and it failed 2 days later, of course he would charge me and it wouldn't be some sympathy rate. I would be charged the "I am running a business and I need to make a profit in everything I do or I will soon be out of business " rate.
Don't appoligize for making a profit, it is the only reason to work, charity work should be donated to those in need not just in need of a ceiling fan.
Work hard, Make money, Be proud!
 
e_carbine said:
I get frustrated with electricians; it seems as a whole we way under value the service that we perform.
If I bought an alternator for my truck from Auto-Zone and took it to my mechanic and had him install it and it failed 2 days later, of course he would charge me and it wouldn't be some sympathy rate. I would be charged the "I am running a business and I need to make a profit in everything I do or I will soon be out of business " rate.
Don't appoligize for making a profit, it is the only reason to work, charity work should be donated to those in need not just in need of a ceiling fan.
Work hard, Make money, Be proud!
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Good post. I might only add that the reason most electricians "under value" their services is because the majority of them simply do not know how to price for profit. They make the huge mistake of looking at what their competition is charging, falsly thinking that charging the "going rate" or "charging what's fair" because that's what "they" charge, is what they need to charge. Selling on price instead of selling on value and the true cost of doing business.

Paying themselves respectable wages and benefits, knowing the true cost of doing business (which includes their compensation and benefits), thus, knowing their breakeven, understanding what their billable efficiency is and adding a profit deserving of the knowledge, expertise and risk seems to elude most electrical contractors.

Add in not knowing how to market themselves and how to recruit the right people and it isn't hard to understand why less than 5% will be in business ten years from now.

The shame of it is, most are excellent electricians and hardworking people. They just never understood the importance of learning the business of electrical contracting.
 
e_carbine said:
I get frustrated with electricians; it seems as a whole we way under value the service that we perform.
If I bought an alternator for my truck from Auto-Zone and took it to my mechanic and had him install it and it failed 2 days later, of course he would charge me and it wouldn't be some sympathy rate. I would be charged the "I am running a business and I need to make a profit in everything I do or I will soon be out of business " rate.
Don't appoligize for making a profit, it is the only reason to work, charity work should be donated to those in need not just in need of a ceiling fan.
Work hard, Make money, Be proud!
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Not to sound like a broken record, but....as I was saying earlier in the thread, I don't go around working for free! We were talking about something that could POSSIBLY bring you more business and hence, MORE MONEY! You probably think nothing of dropping a couple of c-notes for an ad somewhere. All I'm suggesting is that I can get a better return on my investment by doing a quick public relations call for an existing client than I can from some ad in the local paper or phone book that is just going to attract people looking for "something for nothing!" Think what you may, but my advertising budget consists of printing business cards. A few years ago, I was trying to move into a neighboring market. I paid thousands of dollars for Yellow Page and local paper ads! What did I get? 3 customers in that area! Anyway, my point is that you are missing my point. I am in business just like the next guy. I just have different ideas on ways to advertise my business. With MUCH better results than paying for ads!:D
 
drbond24 said:
Just a vote from a hypothetical customer here. :) If I were the customer you were talking about, the above quote is what I would think. If you provided the fan, you'd better fix it for nothing. If I provided the fan (i.e. bought it at Home Depot before you got there) then I could see you charging me, but if you want me to stay happy it wouldn't be much. :D

Having said that, if your customer provided the fan I think you would be fully justified in charging normally for replacing it. After all, you are installing a fan in both cases. I just don't think it is the way to win friends.
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Sums it up for me.
 
Bottom line: Wether the customer provides the fan or if you provide the fan, you should be able to inspect the fan box for any damages. If there were no damages and your fan is running properly when leaving the customers house, the 2nd visit is decided on 1 of 2 things.
1) If it was your fault (loose connection,etc) then NO. Do not charge.

2) If it was NOT your fault (burnt motor) then Yes. Do charge.

If there WAS damage to the fan box or fan itself before you installed it, then IMO, it was your wrong doing for putting it up in the first place.
 
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