K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
The way I read this is that switched receptacles are allowed, but they must be in addition to required receptacles that are not switched.
Do installed receptacles need to always be hot ?
- Thread starter ritelec
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The way I read this is that switched receptacles are allowed, but they must be in addition to required receptacles that are not switched.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
If all of the receptacles are switched by one light switch in a room to comply with 250.70(A)(1) then it does not comply with 250.52. It's all right there in post #17.
Adamjamma
Senior Member
- Location
- Jamaica and london
210.70 refers to lighting, does it not?
Since we are stating specifically that this would be for outlets not used for the required lighting, what would be the difference in them being switched off by an appropriate 20 amp switch, compared to a fifteen amp breaker, especially if a fifteen amp breaker is what feeds the switch? Is the requirement for the outlets to be live at all times or for them to be properly spaced so you do not double up extension cords?
I mean, as long as the switch has an operating amperage of greater than the breaker feeding it, I do not see the problem. For instance, a group of switches in a kitchen, controlling certain appliances and labeled as such...
Itmay not be necessary, nor may it be common, but i do not personally think it is prohibited. In UK I can actually buy decora style switches, 20 amp double pole, that are labeled washing machine, dishwasher, refrigerator, freezer, and other things. Think there are twenty labels available in my screwfix catalog.
Since we are stating specifically that this would be for outlets not used for the required lighting, what would be the difference in them being switched off by an appropriate 20 amp switch, compared to a fifteen amp breaker, especially if a fifteen amp breaker is what feeds the switch? Is the requirement for the outlets to be live at all times or for them to be properly spaced so you do not double up extension cords?
I mean, as long as the switch has an operating amperage of greater than the breaker feeding it, I do not see the problem. For instance, a group of switches in a kitchen, controlling certain appliances and labeled as such...
Itmay not be necessary, nor may it be common, but i do not personally think it is prohibited. In UK I can actually buy decora style switches, 20 amp double pole, that are labeled washing machine, dishwasher, refrigerator, freezer, and other things. Think there are twenty labels available in my screwfix catalog.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
I might change my mind on this one.
Re-reading....
Receptacles are required in certain locations, but a wall switched receptacle that is being used to satisfy a lighting outlet requirement cannot be counted as required receptacle.
It does not say anything at all about using a wall switch to switch a receptacle that is not being used to satisfy 210.70.
If I have a detached garage with a receptacles in it, a snap switch is allowed as the required disconnect. I see no reason and no code wording that prevents other receptacles to be controlled by a snap switch, be it in the wall or otherwise.
What about a work bench with receptacles in it. Is it a code violation to control those with a wall switch?
So I am going to say that it is not against code to use a wall switch to de-energize receptacles for control purposes, lighting or otherwise.
Re-reading....
Receptacles are required in certain locations, but a wall switched receptacle that is being used to satisfy a lighting outlet requirement cannot be counted as required receptacle.
It does not say anything at all about using a wall switch to switch a receptacle that is not being used to satisfy 210.70.
If I have a detached garage with a receptacles in it, a snap switch is allowed as the required disconnect. I see no reason and no code wording that prevents other receptacles to be controlled by a snap switch, be it in the wall or otherwise.
What about a work bench with receptacles in it. Is it a code violation to control those with a wall switch?
So I am going to say that it is not against code to use a wall switch to de-energize receptacles for control purposes, lighting or otherwise.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Where in 250.70 say that all the receptacles in a room have to be switched by a single switch to comply with 250.70? Unless a switched receptacle is used in lieu of a required lighting receptacle, 250.70 doesn't even come into play.
One switch for a light, one for the receptacles. Not common, but I don't think it's a code violation. So long as the switch is rated for the load.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Then how do you have any receptacles that comply with 250.52? If there is a switch controlled lighting outlet then you can switch all of the receptacles.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Where does it say that I have to have a switch controlled lighting outlet in order to switch receptacles? The requirements for switch controlled lighting outlets have nothing to do with switch controlled convenience receptacles.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
It's all there in this thread.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
All the above means is that I cannot count a receptacle that is being used as a required lighting outlet as a required receptacle. Required receptacles must be in addition to required lighting outlets using a receptacle. Nothing in 250 prevents me from putting the required receptacles on another switch.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
But it's not in the NEC.
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
Yes I've said that more than once in this thread. I think that you meant 210.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Duh.....yeah, I meant 210. Sorry. :ashamed1:
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
I think this is what threw me off....:angel:
- Location
- Chapel Hill, NC
- Occupation
- Retired Electrical Contractor
But if there is an overhead light who says that switching all the receptacles is for lighting?
- Location
- New Jersey
- Occupation
- Journeyman Electrician
I don't know, not me.
Hmm...if you put in the required lighting outlets in a bathroom or kitchen do they need to actually light up the room? Not sure where you're going with this. IMO it's safe to say that the intent of the code requirements is that all things will be powered.
It makes sense that if we start with a code compliant configuration, and then install a switch at room entrance (electrically speaking) for the sole purpose of cutting all power on that circuit, that should be compliant. I'd recommend running the neutral through the box even if only the hot is switched, and tab the wires within the box with a note.
I'd also ask the AHJ. If they say "no", then you can remove the switch, keep the box, and splice the wires. Leave plenty of slack. Make it easier for the homeowner to revert to self help. Even if the AHJ says yes, it makes it easier for a future homeowner to ditch the switch if so desired.
I'd also ask the AHJ. If they say "no", then you can remove the switch, keep the box, and splice the wires. Leave plenty of slack. Make it easier for the homeowner to revert to self help. Even if the AHJ says yes, it makes it easier for a future homeowner to ditch the switch if so desired.
K8MHZ
Senior Member
- Occupation
- Electrician
Not 24/7. They can be turned off, obviously. Why can't receptacles also be turned off?
No, I think it's safe to say that the intent is that all things have the ability to be powered, not that they have to be powered continuously.
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