Do it yourselfers

[celtic]

(Sorry, misread. I saw 'toilet' when you wrote 'toilet seat'.)

-Jon

I did say "toilet"...not "toilet seat"....I used toilet because they have a built in trap

 

[tallgirl]

Most people are not real good at knowing when they are in over their head.

Warning labels these days contain so many superfluous admonitions that people tend to just ignore them.

Some people think DIY electrical work is like building a deck -- if something goes wrong, go back to Home Despot, buy another board, cut it the correct length, and nail it back down. Home Despot sells all sorts of really nice books on how to build a deck, how to add a sink, how to add a dimmer switch. It creates a false sense of self-confidence. It's like the joke about the difference between being experienced and being an expert -- if you do it once you're experienced, if you do it twice you're an expert.

 

[Mike03a3]

Some people think DIY electrical work is like building a deck . . .

That may be a better analogy then you intended. DIY decks that are not to code and uninspected may very well kill more people than DIY electrical projects.

 

[petersonra]

That may be a better analogy then you intended. DIY decks that are not to code and uninspected may very well kill more people than DIY electrical projects.

decks that are not to code but have been inspected might well be a problem as well, regardless of who built them.

 

[realolman]

Decks with 50 drunks on them may be enough of a problem to cause the state legislature to pass a law requiring permits and inspections when none existed before... instead of passing a law to keep 50 drunks off a deck.

 

[celtic]

... instead of passing a law to keep 50 drunks off a deck.

That's what we need...more gov't telling us just how many drunks are allowed on a deck - do drunks weigh more than sober people?

 

[realolman]

No, but sober people usually know how many people would be a reasonable number to be on a deck.

Pennsylvania had no statewide building code until a couple years ago.
One of the reasons cited by my state rep. for passing the law was the collapse of a deck, killing people. He failed to mention how many people were on that deck partying. I guess he figures most voters don't read the paper.

He also failed to mention the lobbying efforts of the state contractor's association.

If you want talk about the loss of personal freedoms, I'd prefer freedoms be taken from drunks rather than the property rights of home owners.

 

[iwire]

No, but sober people usually know how many people would be a reasonable number to be on a deck..

Huh?

What is a 'reasonable number'?

I don't know and I am stone cold sober.

I believe that most people assume a floor, a deck, a set of stairs can hold as many people that can stand beside each other, I know I do.

To design to support less than that seems like a very bad idea.

 

[realolman]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/29/deck.collapse/index.html

I assume Chicago has a building code. Maybe they don't, I don't know.

I suppose you are right, Iwire ,I don't know the exact number of people who should be on a deck
My point is about the loss of personal property rights.

I would prefer to see drunks regulated than home owners.
.

 

[petersonra]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Midwest/06/29/deck.collapse/index.html

I assume Chicago has a building code. Maybe they don't, I don't know.

I suppose you are right, Iwire ,I don't know the exact number of people who should be on a deck
My point is about the loss of personal property rights.

I would prefer to see drunks regulated than home owners.
.

I don't recall exactly what happened in this case but I seem to recall that the subsequent investigation ended up determining that the structure actually met all the codes for such structures, and was in good repair. The code just did not require that the structure hold up that much weight.

 

[iwire]

I don't recall exactly what happened in this case but I seem to recall that the subsequent investigation ended up determining that the structure actually met all the codes for such structures, and was in good repair. The code just did not require that the structure hold up that much weight.

I would be very surprised if that where the case.

More likely it meet code for the time it was built, not the present codes.

If what you say was accurate I would suspect many other collapses would be occurring.

Most of the deck collapse story's I have read the cause was insufficient attachment to the building structure.

 

[realolman]

More likely it meet code for the time it was built, not the present codes.

.

Perhaps home improvement contractors should lobby the state legislature to require the homeowner to pay for an annual inspection of his residence and remodel / repair to current codes. Now there's a revenue generator that could fly the safety flag! Maybe the federal government could jump in as well! I think residents that don't contribute to the inspection industry are giving comfort to the terrorists.

I don't like this permit / inspection money suck for private residences.

We did not have it in Pennsylvania until recently. Even after it was passed a large portion of it was repealed. I don't think anyone knows for sure what is required to be inspected or not at this point.

 

[iwire]

Perhaps home improvement contractors should lobby the state legislature to require the homeowner to pay for an annual inspection of his residence and remodel / repair to current codes.

I know your kidding.

You should know I will never say anything close to that.

My point was that when the investigators looked into the accident they probably found it was in compliance for when it was built which in most areas will mean it is still in compliance.

I live in a 1925 home...believe me I am not about to suggest it needs to be brought into current building compliance. I would have to knock it down and start over.

 

[petersonra]

Perhaps home improvement contractors should lobby the state legislature to require the homeowner to pay for an annual inspection of his residence and remodel / repair to current codes.

A lot of states and/or localities have mandatory annual vehicle inspections. Big revenue generator for the mechanics.

 

[hockeyoligist2]

Decks with 50 drunks on them may be enough of a problem to cause the state legislature to pass a law requiring permits and inspections when none existed before... instead of passing a law to keep 50 drunks off a deck.

I wish You wouldn't talk so bad about me!

 

[iwire]

A lot of states and/or localities have mandatory annual vehicle inspections. Big revenue generator for the mechanics.

Yeah I see them all in the expensive cars and the luxury homes.

I am glad we have car inspections here.

 

[realolman]

My point was: the people who knocked the porch down were drunken idiots. Get them.

I'm a DIY'er. I bought an old house and remodeled it pretty much myself. with about 10 dollars spent in permits and inspections over the past 24 years. We didn't need them ... then. We don't need them now, but for the law.

You guys in this forum who think you're hot stuff because you're employed as an electrician, go to the plumbing, heating, and oil burner sites, or if they have any... the car mechanic sites, and see what you are there...

you're a DIY'er.

 

[tallgirl]

Yeah I see them all in the expensive cars and the luxury homes.

I am glad we have car inspections here.

Sorry -- homes don't go out on the road and cause trouble with other home drivers. It's the same reason health inspectors inspect commercial kitchens, but not your kitchen -- safety of the general public.

 

[renosteinke]

Do it yourselfers

I think we see DIY work, especially really shoddy DIY work, as the direct result of a few attitudes that we are agressively "taught."
Schools teach that you don't need to learn, you can 'figure it out.'
Schools teach disdain for rules and practices: "my opinion is just as good as yours."
"Consumer" groups teach that contractors are not to be trusted, and cost too much.
"Consumer" groups, and others, teach to focus on price alone. In their eyes, a Yugo is every bit as good a car as a Hummer.
"Enviro" groups sneer at 'the usual methods," and encourage the use of old, non standard materials and methods.

There is also, throughout our society, a learned disdain for the tradesman. The paper-pushing office wonk just "knows" he 'outranks' the undegreed, sweaty ox, working out in the weather. Why, the trades, we all know, are for those not good enough for college, for the misfits and screw-ups, and the unwashed immigrant.

Add to this retailers who say "you can do it, we can help"... and the stage is set.


I'm afraid all we can do is let these fools stumble a few times, then use our skills to save the day. THEN you'll be respected.

 

[realolman]

Hey Iwire, I know they didn't put the insulation and windows in houses back in 1925 that they put in now, but how much less safe or substantial do you think your 1925 house is than recent construction?

I suspect it's pretty favorable.

If your 1925 house seems safe, what's the point of all the current rigamarole?