Do it yourselfers

[iwire]

how much less safe or substantial do you think your 1925 house is than recent construction?

I suspect it's pretty favorable.

If your 1925 house seems safe, what's the point of all the current rigamarole?

I guess the most glaring difference is that home is built of 'balloon' construction which will let fire travel from the basement to the attic in no time at all. Of course at this point the wall cavities are filled with blown in insulation which should at least slow that fire spread.

Next I would say the under sized (by todays standards) floor joists and roof rafters.

Sure they have lasted and I do not fear collapses but they have sagged. Some people call that 'character' I call it an eyesore.

The brick chimney is unlined and I will have to have a liner installed or replace it with B-vent.

The basement has a ceiling height of about 5'-10" from floor to bottom of joists to low in my opinion but not a safety problem.

The foundation is stone and most likely has no footing as we know it again I have no fear of collapse but a poured concrete foundation with footing is without a doubt better.

But I have no reason to change any of this, I knew all this when I bought it and I certainly would not want the Gvt. to say I have to bring it up to current code.

 

[tallgirl]

Some of the construction from that era is better than what we use today.

Many years ago I worked on a house that was built in the 1920s. The wife wanted a ceiling fan put into what I guess was going to be the family room, so I dutifully went and found the appropriate hanger and went to nail it into the ceiling joists. The nails didn't exactly want to go in. After much coaxing, I got the bracket hung, ran the wires, switches, etc.

What I found was the house was framed with OAK. Not fir or pine or whatever, but OAK.

This is a house that my home town wanted to have condemned. Over the years the people who'd owned it had reroofed the house several times, often without removing the old material, and the load had started to spread the walls out to the point that everything would have failed sooner or later. We removed the roof, put down new plywood decking, fixed what framing problems we needed to fix, rewired everything to code, new plumbing, etc. and it was a very nice house after that. It cost less than demolishing and rebuilding. And, the oak lumber it's made from will still be there long after we're all dead.

Before assuming things are "bad" with lumber or whatever, get a structural engineer to see if load-bearing columns have compacted or settled, and then see about having whatever in the basement is supporting the floors shimmed.

 

[Jim W in Tampa]

Yeah I see them all in the expensive cars and the luxury homes.

I am glad we have car inspections here.

Florida droped inspections 20 years ago because it wasnt doing any real good and costing people time and money that had safe cars anyways.I hardly think the mechanics got any extra work from it.

 

[iwire]

Florida droped inspections 20 years ago because it wasnt doing any real good and costing people time and money that had safe cars anyways.I hardly think the mechanics got any extra work from it.

Ours are once a year and it's more about emission compliance than safety although most stations do take a quick look at the car for basic condition.

If Florida gets enough smog you will see the inspections too.

I have never used the mechanic inspecting for repairs.

 

[petersonra]

Some of the construction from that era is better than what we use today.

Norm seems to feel otherwise. He is always ragging on the lack of a proper structure in older house. Even if it is oak, that does not make the structure sound by itself.

he does not like plumbers much either. they seem to be chopping up the structure to fit in pipes all the time.

 

[tallgirl]

I have never used the mechanic inspecting for repairs.

I stopped doing that after the first $20 pair of wiper blades.

Safety inspections are mostly a waste. More people have working turn signals and broken turn signal hands than have broken turn signals and working turn signal hands.

If the police would spend more time enforcing the laws that are related to accidents -- not signaling turns, not yielding right of way, racing through traffic signals -- we might have fewer accidents.

ObNEC -- Fortunately "lighting outlet" for cars doesn't permit one to have turn signals with no attached lighting fixture. Not that this helps because many people seem to think using turn signals costs them money each time they use them.

 

[Bob NH]

Number on a Deck?
What is a 'reasonable number'? I don't know and I am stone cold sober.
I believe that most people assume a floor, a deck, a set of stairs can hold as many people that can stand beside each other, I know I do.
To design to support less than that seems like a very bad idea.

Most private decks are designed for 40# per square foot. That's 8000 pounds on a 10' x 20' deck; or 40 to 50 people. Decks for public assembly are usually 100# per square foot.

Failures are usually caused when someone screws up and puts in a weak link. There was a recent spectacular deck failure where it was toenailed to the wall instead of using proper joist hangers. In a big balcony failure at a Hyatt hotel a few years ago, the contractor cut the multi-floor hanger rods to make it easy to install them, and didn't make a proper splice.

Electrical systems get tested when the voltage is applied, which is usually before they are occupied.

 

[realolman]

.... Safety inspections are mostly a waste. More people have working turn signals and broken turn signal hands than have broken turn signals and working turn signal hands.

If the police would spend more time enforcing the laws that are related to accidents -- not signaling turns, not yielding right of way, racing through traffic signals -- we might have fewer accidents.

I agree, and think exactly the same logic should be applied to the permiting and inspection of the work I do to my private residence.

It's my house.

Because a bunch of drunken idiots knock down a porch is no reason to implement a statewide residential building code.

It makes no sense to me that I can let my house deteriorate, but when I want to fix something up, somebody wants to come stick his hands in my wallet "to make sure I did a good job."

Hogwash.

 

[jeff43222]

I agree, and think exactly the same logic should be applied to the permiting and inspection of the work I do to my private residence.

It's my house.

True, but there's a good chance that it will belong to someone else someday. That person probably wants the wiring to be safe, not a fire or electrocution waiting to happen.

I did a service upgrade on a house last year where the homeowner gutted the place and rewired everything downstream of the main panel, and he never pulled a permit for any of it. I saw the bad wiring work he did and told him I wasn't going to touch it unless he got it inspected (he wanted me to add stuff to the wiring he did). He declined to get it inspected and proceeded to cover all of it with drywall. Someday he's going to sell that place, and the new owner will have no idea how bad the wiring is. In many cases there is Romex dangerously close to the surface of the drywall.

If you want to work on your own house, I don't have a problem with it. But once that house goes on the market, potential buyers shouldn't have to gut the place to make sure the wiring is OK.

Because a bunch of drunken idiots knock down a porch is no reason to implement a statewide residential building code.

My understanding of the situation in Chicago was that the deck that collapsed was built in violation of building codes, which is why it collapsed.

It makes no sense to me that I can let my house deteriorate,

Not in my neighborhood you can't. I just got a letter from the city telling me to repair the soffits on my garage. Some DIYer who owned my house before me did a poor job building the garage, leading to rotted wood, which caused the soffits to fall apart.

but when I want to fix something up, somebody wants to come stick his hands in my wallet "to make sure I did a good job."

Hogwash.

Permits should only cover the cost of the inspection. Most of the permits I buy aren't all that expensive. One city I work in has a $15 minimum, and the state's is only $20.

 

[realolman]

Gee that is a bargain... only 15 - 20 dollars minimum to have my privacy invaded and my personal property rights trampled..

I don't know what I was thinking.

Home ownership and individual freedoms really are problematic to regulate.

 

[hillbilly]

Gee that is a bargain... only 15 - 20 dollars minimum to have my privacy invaded and my personal property rights trampled..

I don't know what I was thinking.

Home ownership and individual freedoms really are problematic to regulate.[/QUOTE}

I know what you mean.
Private property rights are in peril in this country.
It's all about the money where I live. Pay for a inspection by a flunky who dosen't even know what he's looking at and the government will give you "permission" to spend your own money to build something on your "own" (ha ha) property. Got to meet that county payroll, and hire some more flunkies. How did our grandfathers ever do without them.
I'm against Zoning Laws and Big Brother Government.
Of course, I've always been a independant sort of guy, kinda like our founding fathers.
steve

 

[Minuteman]

This single lady (a friend of a friend) bought a 12 year old house and was bringing it up to date with paint & carpet. We installed 3 ceiling fans a few weeks ago.

Last night she called and said a kitchen outlet "burned up". Sent the "on call" guy out and he found A cheep extension cord inside the wall extending from an outlet to the outlet behind her TV, DVD, and stereo. He said it burned the neutral smooth up and scorched the wall paper. But the good news is, somebody saved money on more than their car insurance!

 

[petersonra]

This single lady (a friend of a friend) bought a 12 year old house and was bringing it up to date with paint & carpet. We installed 3 ceiling fans a few weeks ago.

Last night she called and said a kitchen outlet "burned up". Sent the "on call" guy out and he found A cheep extension cord inside the wall extending from an outlet to the outlet behind her TV, DVD, and stereo. He said it burned the neutral smooth up and scorched the wall paper. But the good news is, somebody saved money on more than their car insurance!

was he able to determine why the cord burned up? was the conductor size too small?

 

[tallgirl]

This single lady (a friend of a friend) bought a 12 year old house and was bringing it up to date with paint & carpet. We installed 3 ceiling fans a few weeks ago.

Last night she called and said a kitchen outlet "burned up". Sent the "on call" guy out and he found A cheep extension cord inside the wall extending from an outlet to the outlet behind her TV, DVD, and stereo. He said it burned the neutral smooth up and scorched the wall paper. But the good news is, somebody saved money on more than their car insurance!

Extension cord? You mean, someone took an extension cord, cut the ends off and wired from one outlet to another? Or what? I can't even visualize what you've described. "Extension cord" and "inside the wall" don't work for my brain.

Better question -- why didn't the "on call" guy take a picture?

 

[NoVA Comms Power]

... I can't even visualize what you've described. "Extension cord" and "inside the wall" don't work for my brain.

How 'bout this one:

Lamp cord twisted-on (i.e. electrical tape only) in an uncovered j-box in an attic, then ...

... running across the joists about 10' under the fiberglass batting ...

... thru a hole in the sheetrock ceiling ...

... where it terminated directly onto an ancient incandescent "bare bulb" fixture (no box) drywall-screwed directly into the ceiling...

... of a clothes closet about 6" from a shelf ...

... in the MBR of a wood frame residential dwelling.

How's that for "violations per foot" ?

 

[jeff43222]

Gee that is a bargain... only 15 - 20 dollars minimum to have my privacy invaded and my personal property rights trampled..

I don't know what I was thinking.

Home ownership and individual freedoms really are problematic to regulate.

OK, I see your point. But if your house goes on the market someday and I find myself considering making an offer on it, I'm going to insist on a full inspection. That means all the walls and ceilings are going to be opened up so I can have the plumbing and electric checked. I'm going to want to see for myself that it's OK and not just take your word for it.

 

[tallgirl]

How 'bout this one:

Noooooo! Please!!!

Wow.

But, hey, at least they used electrical tape!

 

[realolman]

OK, I see your point. But if your house goes on the market someday and I find myself considering making an offer on it, I'm going to insist on a full inspection. That means all the walls and ceilings are going to be opened up so I can have the plumbing and electric checked. I'm going to want to see for myself that it's OK and not just take your word for it.

That's your prerogative and your money to waste. And wasted it will be.
Don't expect me to knock it off the price. Reasonable people do things to their homes the best they are able and the best they can afford. There is always a fringe element out there somewhere. I can't believe the extension cord was installed in a house in the classy neighborhood in town , or that there were not other tell tale signs.

I'll tell you this... I have never put anything in my house that I was afraid to go to sleep, or to let my wife and kids go to sleep here. And there is nothing in the world more important to me than that

I wrote that smart a$$ed "bargain "answer this morning before going to work and I've been regretting it all day. I apologize for that. You are of course correct in what you said. I can see that there are problems out there, and I don't have any good answer.

I lived in one of the last four states to not have a building code and now we do. I suppose most of you have never experienced that. I didn't realize how important it was until it was gone.

Gone is a long term word, and a sad word.

I think I am just deeply saddened at what I perceive to be losses that grow daily ...

losses of personal privacy, property rights, losses in neighborhoods... the last local hardware store is closing up... nothing around here now but Lowe's and WalMart.

losses of personal responsibility and integrity... you don't put extension cords in walls.

I suppose in some ways I'm dealing with the loss of immortality.
I would never have considered that I wouldn't live here any more, but my kids are grown...

I didn't notice it so much untill recent years. I don't know if that's just part of getting older or maybe just the reality of it. I do think that anyone who is not concerned about diminishing freedoms in this country had better take another look.

 

[jeff43222]

OK, I see your point. But if your house goes on the market someday and I find myself considering making an offer on it, I'm going to insist on a full inspection. That means all the walls and ceilings are going to be opened up so I can have the plumbing and electric checked. I'm going to want to see for myself that it's OK and not just take your word for it.

That's your prerogative and your money to waste. And wasted it will be.
Don't expect me to knock it off the price.

I never said I was going to pay to have the walls put back up, nor did I say I'd commit to buying the house first.

Reasonable people do things to their homes the best they are able and the best they can afford. There is always a fringe element out there somewhere.

The problem is that the "best they are able" is often pathetically substandard. I see this kind of stuff every day.

I can't believe the extension cord was installed in a house in the classy neighborhood in town , or that there were not other tell tale signs.

Doesn't surprise me in the least. I did a job not long ago where the homeowner decided he wanted to plug something in where there was no receptacle, so he decided to run an ungrounded extension cord up from the basement and screwed it under a sharp-edged metal threshhold strip (with part of the cord sticking out) across a doorway. Meanwhile, his baby was just getting ready to start crawling. I was blown away at how dangerous this was, and I disconnected and cut the wiring without even asking the homeowners. When I explained to them how easily their child could have been electrocuted, they were grateful. I then installed a proper receptacle where they wanted one.

I'll tell you this... I have never put anything in my house that I was afraid to go to sleep, or to let my wife and kids go to sleep here. And there is nothing in the world more important to me than that

I doubt many people intentionally install dangerous wiring in their own houses. Where it gets to be problematic is when people think they know much more than they do or think that what they did incorrectly is no big deal.

I wrote that smart a$$ed "bargain "answer this morning before going to work and I've been regretting it all day. I apologize for that. You are of course correct in what you said. I can see that there are problems out there, and I don't have any good answer.

The one thing I see being done in one jurisdiction where I work is the city requires a "truth in housing" inspection whenever a house is put on the market. If they find work that was done without permits/inspections, they require licensed contractors to pull permits and get the work inspected. It's the only way the authorities have to catch hack work and get it corrected. Otherwise, there would be no standards, and eventually anyone looking to buy a house wouldn't have much choice except to buy a place where many things are substandard.

I know I don't want the standard to be "It works and it's not on fire, so everything must be just fine!"

I lived in one of the last four states to not have a building code and now we do. I suppose most of you have never experienced that. I didn't realize how important it was until it was gone.

Gone is a long term word, and a sad word.

I think I am just deeply saddened at what I perceive to be losses that grow daily ...

losses of personal privacy, property rights, losses in neighborhoods... the last local hardware store is closing up... nothing around here now but Lowe's and WalMart.

losses of personal responsibility and integrity... you don't put extension cords in walls.

I suppose in some ways I'm dealing with the loss of immortality.
I would never have considered that I wouldn't live here any more, but my kids are grown...

I didn't notice it so much untill recent years. I don't know if that's just part of getting older or maybe just the reality of it. I do think that anyone who is not concerned about diminishing freedoms in this country had better take another look.

I agree with you that we have lost a lot, but one of the things we have lost is quality. I don't have a problem with DIYers doing work on their own houses, but they should have to meet the same codes I do. I'm a licensed professional, and my work must still be inspected when it's done. That's a pretty strong incentive for me to make sure the work is done right.

When there are unlicensed handymen out there deciding for themselves that they are qualified to do electrical work and offering their services to an unsuspecting public, it hurts everyone. It also would have been nice if the building code was enforced when a previous owner did a DIY number on my garage. I'm sure he considered himself an expert, but his poor methods resulted in rotted wood and damage that I'm now stuck having to fix.

 

[calepore123]

I whent to friends house to install a dryer outlet for 60 bucks when i whet in basement there romex hanging from rafters to the floor with plugs on them had to ask .she said that's how you turn the lights on up stair's should see my hot tub! when I'm sitting in it I just small.ps I re did the panel to an ask if she wood like a lighting buster installed she said no thanks hear hubby did not want to pay 100 buck for it .guess whet happened the next week .about that hot tub.