Do you always have to have a neu. In a switch box? This is a hospital.

[GoldDigger]

First of all my attorneys, Do We Cheatem & How, have taken the position on this topic that they will accept both defendants and plaintiffs as they are a for profit amoral center.
...
Seriously, though, give the current litigious state of mind, it's not a hard stretch of the imagination to make.

That's Dewey, Cheatham, and Howe out here in California...

 

[mbrooke]

Putting PPE on does not allow us to work on things hot just because we want to.

You must be able to justify the reason hot work is the safer than shutting things down.

But PPE (like linemen gloves) does protect against electrocution.

You are correct a justification takes place... however, when it comes to money, things change. Try turning off lights in a busy office building... it doesn't happen.

 

[iwire]

But PPE (like linemen gloves) does protect against electrocution.

You are correct a justification takes place... however, when it comes to money, things change. Try turning off lights in a busy office building... it doesn't happen.

As long as people have that attitude nothing will change.

However things are changing in the segment I am in. Now even customers are expecting us to follow the rules while working for them.

Recently a coworker was given unpaid time off for landing a conductor on a spare breaker in a live panel.

 

[Fulthrotl]

Recently a coworker was given unpaid time off for landing a conductor on a spare breaker in a live panel.

as well he should have.... i can't tell you the times i've needed a spare breaker
in a live panel, only to find they have all been taken by people like your
thoughtless, insensitive coworker.

people taking the last empty breaker, inconveniencing me, should be sent home.

 

[iwire]

as well he should have.... i can't tell you the times i've needed a spare breaker
in a live panel, only to find they have all been taken by people like your
thoughtless, insensitive coworker.

people taking the last empty breaker, inconveniencing me, should be sent home.

:lol:

:thumbsup:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

... however, when it comes to money, things change. Try turning off lights in a busy office building... it doesn't happen.

It really does happen. There are a number of large contractors that won't do any live work. There are also clients, that really understand their liability, that require compliance with 70E in their contract documents.

You always have to ask: If you can't deal with a planned shutdown, how will you deal with an unplanned one when an accident happens because you insisted the the contractor work on energized equipment.

 

[winnie]

Another point to consider:

Most of the situations where people are pushed to do live work are situations where the system could have been designed in the first place to greatly reduce the inconvenience of a shut down.

Having fewer lights on the same circuit, having fewer circuits in a given panel, having redundant operations centers so that you can shut one down, etc. These are all design decisions which add cost but make shutdown much less of a hassle. I won't try to argue the proper dividing line between what the NEC should mandate and what is 'good design that exceeds NEC'; but I will argue that proper design can eliminate most of the push to do live work.

-Jon