Does anyone make a 60 amp GFCI breaker that'll fit in a Square D Homeline panel?

[LarryFine]

What is the purpose of the "load" terminal on the breaker if it's not sensing a difference in current?

I guess I've never really thought about GFCI protection in a 240V situation. On a 120V system the GFCI is sensing a difference in current on the the hot and the neutral. But there is no neutral in a 240V circuit.

All of the circuit conductors, regardless of quantity, pass through a metal ring with a little coil on it. As long as all current leaving the source returns through the ring, no magnetism is developed in it, and the little coil has no voltage induced in it.

If someone receives a shock, that current is current that leaves the source and passes through the ring, but returns to the source without passing through it, magnetizing it. A voltage is induced in the little coil, amplified, and trips the GFCI.

Without one solidly-grounded circuit conductor (typically, the neutral), the accidental contact is not compelled to travel through a person and into the earth or other grounded surface. Of course, capacitive currents can contribute to shock, too.

This also explains why it doesn't matter whether there is one or more ungrounded circuit conductor. Line-to-line shocks are seen as normal current to a GFCI, because none of the current is bypassing the ring, so no voltage is induced in the coil.

 

[shortcircuit2]

View attachment 2554986

Is that wired with #6 or #4 Copper?

 

[Shak180]

I bought it from the Orange store (Home Depot). Here's the link to the product.

Square D QO 60 Amp 2-Space 4-Circuit Spa Panel Main Lug Load Center(QOE260GFINM) QOE260GFINM - The Home Depot

Provide complete power solutions to your home by using this Square D Homeline 2-Space 4-Circuit Spa Panel Main Lug Load Center. Cover can be padlocked.

www.homedepot.com

In the product description it states the breaker protects single pole and 2-pole loads against ground and overcurrent fault

 

[Shak180]

Is that wired with #6 or #4 Copper?

It's wired with #6 copper THHN

 

[kwired]

It had "load" embossed on the side of the breaker where I landed the neutral wire from the hot tub

What is the purpose of the "load" terminal on the breaker if it's not sensing a difference in current?

I guess I've never really thought about GFCI protection in a 240V situation. On a 120V system the GFCI is sensing a difference in current on the the hot and the neutral. But there is no neutral in a 240V circuit.

All GFCI's basically have a core they pass all the protected conductors through. This core is no different than clamping an ammeter around those conductors and if there is no leakage outside of the intended circuit the meter will read zero. So with two pole breaker that also includes neutral loads you pass both hots and the neutral through the core. Whatever goes out on L1 has to come back on either L2 or N or it will register net current in the core and cause the logic circuit to initiate trip if it exceeds the 4-6 mA threshold it is designed around.

Same for three pole GFCI's.

 

[kwired]

Looked up the complete assembly, apparently they have a different catalog number for the breaker that is installed in it, having trouble finding any details other than the catalog number for the breaker is QO260GFI3W instead of QO260GFI which has been only 60 A 2 Pole previously listed in catalogs.

Also looks like you can buy that assembly for maybe about half the price you can buy an individual 2 pole GFCI breaker.

 

[shortcircuit2]

It's wired with #6 copper THHN

#6 copper is good for 55-amps per the 60-degree column and the load is 45-amps x 1.25 =56.25-amps... so # 4 copper should be used ?

Assuming the tub is outdoors...

 

[kwired]

#6 copper is good for 55-amps per the 60-degree column and the load is 45-amps x 1.25 =56.25-amps... so # 4 copper should be used ?

Assuming the tub is outdoors...

Do you have UF or NM cable involved? Those have to be sized per 60C table. Most anything else common today will be able to use 75C table.

 

[SSDriver]

Also looks like you can buy that assembly for maybe about half the price you can buy an individual 2 pole GFCI breaker.

I have purchased complete panels in the past ,pulled all the breakers to save money. For some reason they sell breakers for much cheaper this way. I have also purchased spa packs for the same reason.

 

[Little Bill]

In the questions section from the link, the question was asked if it contained a load neutral, this is what was stated by Schneider..

Hello,
The QOE260GFINM is suitable only for feeding 240 Vac and 208 Vac two-wire loads. Does not contain load neutral connection.
Regards, Schneider Electric Customer Care.

 

[kwired]

I have purchased complete panels in the past ,pulled all the breakers to save money. For some reason they sell breakers for much cheaper this way. I have also purchased spa packs for the same reason.

I know, I've done the same when I wanted a GFCI to put in a panelboard, buy the spa package unit and take the breaker out.

 

[kwired]

In the questions section from the link, the question was asked if it contained a load neutral, this is what was stated by Schneider..
Hello,

There is a note at bottom of section in the catalog that says basically same thing for the QO260GFI.

The assembly with enclosure earlier mentioned if you search for it on Square D comes up with the breaker having a different catalog number QO260GFI3W - yet I can't find any details elsewhere for that catalog number. Seems the suffixes they added kind of indicate this is a three wire device though? Thing is the 50 amp and less devices all have same catalog number format and those are all three wire, but the 60 amp never was three wire but maybe they recently added one and this is what they decided to call it?

Would make a pretty good universal GFCI for applications where you already have lower setting OCPD at the panel and this is used as a local disconnect and also provides GFCI protection VS needing to get misc sized breakers with GFCI, or when you don't know what OCPD actually needs to be but you do know you will need GFCI regardless.

 

[brantmacga]

View attachment 2554986

Well how about that. That breaker is not listed in the digest, and it looks physically larger than the standard 60A GFCI. I’m not sure that would leave enough room in the gutter of a 14-1/2” load center.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Shak180]

#6 copper is good for 55-amps per the 60-degree column and the load is 45-amps x 1.25 =56.25-amps... so # 4 copper should be used ?

Assuming the tub is outdoors...

I'm curious why you're using the 60C column? Everything in this system should have a rating of 75C.

There aren't more than 3 current carrying conductors and it's not in an area that will be exposed to a lot of sunlight/heat so I don't have to derate for those factors.

 

[rnatalie]

Note that in 2014 any wiring outside the interior of the dwelling must have an insulated grounding conductor (inside, you can use the sheath of the cable). In 2017 and 2020, they change that to be only in "corrosive environments" but that is pretty broadly written to include any areas where pool chemicals are stored or filtration equipment is present, so be careful if you're planning UF/NM cabling.

 

[shortcircuit2]

I'm curious why you're using the 60C column? Everything in this system should have a rating of 75C.

There aren't more than 3 current carrying conductors and it's not in an area that will be exposed to a lot of sunlight/heat so I don't have to derate for those factors.

The LFNC is only rated 60 degree C in wet locations.

 

[rnatalie]

The LFNC is only rated 60 degree C in wet locations.

LFNC is not a conductor.

 

[shortcircuit2]

LFNC is not a conductor.

I agree LFNC is not a conductor...but you can not load any conductor above its 60 degree C ampacity when used in LFMC (in a wet location).

See 356.10(8)

and see 356.12(2)

 

[Little Bill]

I agree LFNC is not a conductor...but you can not load any conductor above its 60 degree C ampacity when used in LFMC (in a wet location).

See 356.10(8)

and see 356.12(2)

I don't see a 356.10(8) in my 2017, you must have the 2020 or are mistaken. Regardless, you can use THWN in wet locations and use the 75 deg. column.

 

[shortcircuit2]

I don't see a 356.10(8) in my 2017, you must have the 2020 or are mistaken. Regardless, you can use THWN in wet locations and use the 75 deg. column.

356.6 and 356.12(2) are in the 2017 Code