Does anyone make a 60 amp GFCI breaker that'll fit in a Square D Homeline panel?

[Little Bill]

356.6 and 356.12(2) are in the 2017 Code

You're confusing here, you said 356.10(8), I said I don't see a 356.10(8)
Then you say 356.6, that is only listing requirements
356.12 is temperature requirements and we aren't discussing that here.
THWN is fine in LFNMC (wet location included) at 75 deg and #6 would fit that bill for 60A

 

[wwhitney]

356.12 is temperature requirements and we aren't discussing that here.
THWN is fine in LFNMC at 75 deg and #6 would fit that bill for 60A

(2017) 356.12(2) says LFNC is prohibited "Where any combination of ambient and conductor temperatures is in excess of that for which it is listed" (emphasis added)

So if LFNC is only listed to 60C in wet locations (as I understand it to be), then in wet locations any conductor inside is limited to 60C, so only the conductor's 60C ampacity may be used.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Little Bill]

(2017) 356.12(2) says LFNC is prohibited "Where any combination of ambient and conductor temperatures is in excess of that for which it is listed" (emphasis added)

So if LFNC is only listed to 60C in wet locations (as I understand it to be), then in wet locations any conductor inside is limited to 60C, so only the conductor's 60C ampacity may be used.

Cheers, Wayne

Where does it say it is listed only for 60C in wet locations?

 

[shortcircuit2]

You're confusing here, you said 356.10(8), I said I don't see a 356.10(8)
Then you say 356.6, that is only listing requirements
356.12 is temperature requirements and we aren't discussing that here.
THWN is fine in LFNMC at 75 deg and #6 would fit that bill for 60A

Where does it say it is listed only for 60C in wet locations?

In the listing...

https://www.afcweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/type-lfnc-b.pdf

 

[wwhitney]

Where does it say it is listed only for 60C in wet locations?

That would be in the product manufacturer's literature. Doing a little more research, it varies by manufacturer. The AFC info is in the previous post. Carflex is the same, 60C wet:

https://carlonsales.com/techinfo/brochures/electrical/Carflex_Brochure.pdf

But Southwire Ultratite implies 80C wet:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/hb9/h6f/8854085533726/Ultratite-Type-NM-Flexible-Conduit.pdf

And they have a high temperature version that says 105C:

https://www.mysouthwire.com/medias/sys_master/product-specifications/product-specifications/hb2/ha6/8854085632030/Ultratite-Type-NMHC-Hot-Cold-Liquidtight-Flexible-Nonmetallic-Conduit.pdf

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Little Bill]

In the listing...

https://www.afcweb.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/type-lfnc-b.pdf

Never heard that before, nor ever heard about any conduit having a temperature rating. I've used it for years in wet locations and never once been called on it.

 

[Little Bill]

Also makes absolutely no sense that a 90 deg wet rated wire (used at 75) would be good in PVC @75 and have to be used @60 in LFNMC

 

[wwhitney]

Never heard that before, nor ever heard about any conduit having a temperature rating. I've used it for years in wet locations and never once been called on it.

Hopefully you've been using Southwire's product, then no problem. : - ) I didn't know about the difference until today, either.

Also makes absolutely no sense that a 90 deg wet rated wire (used at 75) would be good in PVC @75 and have to be used @60 in LFNMC

Sure it does, if the extra plasticizers used in LFNC for its flexibility also lower its temperature resistance when wet. Which is certainly possible from a chemistry point of view.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

But Southwire Ultratite implies 80C wet:

I was suspicious of the implication, so I checked UL 1660, the listing standard for LFNC. [UL standards are now available for digital browsing on their website with an account, just like the NEC is.] I only scanned it quickly, but the upshot is that all LFNC is limited to 60C wet.

Section 1.2 says "Conduit covered by this Standard is intended for use in wet, dry, or oily locations at a maximum of 60C, unless otherwise marked."

Then 6.1.3(d) talks about the requirements for marking LFNC with 80C dry, 90C dry, or 105C dry, and that unmarked conduit is only suitable for 60C dry use. It concludes with "Conduit may be marked 60C dry, but this use is understood without the marking".

Section 6.1.3(g) simply says "Conduit may be marked 60C wet, but this use is understood without the marking." No allowance for marking with a higher wet rating.

So all LFNC is limited to 60C wet by the listing standard, and Southwire's data sheet wording is misleading.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[GeorgeB]

The assembly with enclosure earlier mentioned if you search for it on Square D comes up with the breaker having a different catalog number QO260GFI3W - yet I can't find any details elsewhere for that catalog number. Seems the suffixes they added kind of indicate this is a three wire device though? Thing is the 50 amp and less devices all have same catalog number format and those are all three wire, but the 60 amp never was three wire but maybe they recently added one and this is what they decided to call it?

Interesting. https://download.schneider-electric..._Name=48840-435-03.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=48840-435-03 says on page 2, note 3 that 60A devices are available with and without load neutral ... ???

 

[shortcircuit2]

Liquidtight Flexible Metal Conduit (LFMC) has the same limitation in wet locations.

 

[LarryFine]

Interesting. https://download.schneider-electric..._Name=48840-435-03.pdf&p_Doc_Ref=48840-435-03 says on page 2, note 3 that 60A devices are available with and without load neutral ... ???

Then, in Fig. 4: "Not present on 60 A no load neutral device"

 

[synchro]

At the bottom of pg. 36 of the following flyer they list the QO260GFI3W.
Of course it might be a misprint as they state in a disclaimer that's right below this.

https://susacdn.azureedge.net/cls/Docs/a0ecd536-feb1-4cb3-9104-77c7234ef765.pdf#page=36