Does dishonesty pay? I hope not.

[Coppersmith]

Homeowner called me. She wanted a second opinion. First guy (tech from licensed EC) told her she needed to replace the panel because it was one of those dangerous ones that bursts into flames. She also needed to rewire the entire condo (2 bedroom, 2 bath) because the wire was dangerous. She had originally called him to quote putting up 3 can lights, 8 light fixtures and 2 fans. She just bought the condo. He would do then entire thing for $6000. She asked if they would just do the lights and fans. They said no, if she wasn't going to change the panel, they weren't interested in doing any other work there.

It sounded like a very reasonable price to me but I went over to take a look anyway. The panel was a Challenger in good shape. No danger, no panel change needed. Went into the attic to inspect the wire. All modern NM, no dangerous wire found. This guy was straight out lying to her. She almost bought it. They say dishonesty doesn't pay, but I read these guys just opened a second office in my county. Perhaps it was just the tech trying to make additional commission and not the EC's business plan. Sad either way.

P.S. I got the job to do the lights and fans.

 

[roger]

Turn them in to the state licensing board and let them do a real investigation.

Roger

 

[Ponchik]

IMO, you need to hear it from the other side of the story as well. Maybe the other company offered them options and one of the top options was to rewire and install a new panel.

 

[goldstar]

Turn them in to the state licensing board and let them do a real investigation.

Roger

My thoughts exactly but I would let the HO do it. Give her all the info she needs to file a complaint. No point in getting involved if you don't know the whole story.

 

[growler]

Homeowner called me. She wanted a second opinion. First guy (tech from licensed EC) told her she needed to replace the panel because it was one of those dangerous ones that bursts into flames. She also needed to rewire the entire condo (2 bedroom, 2 bath) because the wire was dangerous. She had originally called him to quote putting up 3 can lights, 8 light fixtures and 2 fans. She just bought the condo. He would do then entire thing for $6000. She asked if they would just do the lights and fans. They said no, if she wasn't going to change the panel, they weren't interested in doing any other work there.

I doubt they were going to rewire the condo with a new panel or service plus the other work for $6K.

Did they have a written estimate?

 

[kwired]

I agree this could raise some questions, but what did the first contractor do that was wrong enough to contact the licensing board?

Had they actually sold a complete upgrade but then reused the old wiring, that would be something to possibly take not only to the licensing board but even to take to small claims court. It can be easy to sell a new panel and change out devices and owner may not know any better and think you replaced everything, yet you scared them into thinking that is what was needed and you didn't even do that.

Otherwise all they did was make an offer to do something and the owner rejected that offer. OP made an offer that the owner liked and got the job.

 

[Ponchik]

I agree this could raise some questions, but

Had they actually sold a complete upgrade but then reused the old wiring, that would be something to possibly take not only to the licensing board but even to take to small claims court. It can be easy to sell a new panel and change out devices and owner may not know any better and think you replaced everything, yet you scared them into thinking that is what was needed and you didn't even do that.

Otherwise all they did was make an offer to do something and the owner rejected that offer. OP made an offer that the owner liked and got the job.

what did the first contractor do that was wrong enough to contact the licensing board?

Nothing!!!

 

[cowboyjwc]

Sad to say, but lying and ripping people off for work that doesn't need to be done is not a crime.

 

[roger]

but what did the first contractor do that was wrong enough to contact the licensing board?

You don't need a real reason, you can report them for anything. After that it's up to the licensing board to judge if the reason had any merit. Reporting a suspicious behavior doesn't mean a crime has been committed.

Roger

 

[Besoeker]

I'd advise the prospective customer to get the $6k detailed and in writing.

 

[Buck Parrish]

I agree with Roger

 

[kwired]

You don't need a real reason, you can report them for anything. After that it's up to the licensing board to judge if the reason had any merit. Reporting a suspicious behavior doesn't mean a crime has been committed.

Roger

I don't even call anything mentioned in OP suspicious behavior, that contractor simply decided what he was willing to bid on and what the cost was. He apparently did not want the job unless he changed everything he said would be changed - and may have reasons for that, like how much liability he may want to take on for anything he left as is.

HO was certainly able to choose someone else that didn't intend to do all that work whether necessary or not.

Like I said it is totally different if they contracted to do certain things and then you find they cut corners and tried to hide it.

 

[roger]

I don't even call anything mentioned in OP suspicious behavior,

And what you might not see as suspicious behavior someone else might, your opinion is yours, not theirs.

that contractor simply decided what he was willing to bid on and what the cost was. He apparently did not want the job unless he changed everything he said would be changed - and may have reasons for that, like how much liability he may want to take on for anything he left as is.

And he also used a scare tactic about a panel being one of those that bursts into flame and someone may see that a suspicious behavior.

HO was certainly able to choose someone else that didn't intend to do all that work whether necessary or not.

True but once again he can be reported to the agency that allows him to be licensed for any reason

Like I said it is totally different if they contracted to do certain things and then you find they cut corners and tried to hide it.

And like I said, report him for the issue at hand and let the board take it from there, if they decide nothings wrong there is no foul.

Roger

 

[Besoeker]

And like I said, report him for the issue at hand and let the board take it from there, if they decide nothings wrong there is no foul.

Roger

To repeat my advice, get the detailed proposal in writing. Otherwise it is "he said, she said".
For a $6k project it's the minimum documentation one should expect
If the proposed contractor is not prepared to do so, walk away from it.

 

[Sierrasparky]

Sad to say, but lying and ripping people off for work that doesn't need to be done is not a crime.

Not actually correct. Take a look at the newer CSLB laws. In providing repair work in Calif you may not provide or charge more than what is reasonably necessary to correct the problem that resulted in the repair call ( residential)
So if this happened in Calif. and there was nothing wrong with the wiring and nothing wrong with the panel. The EC could be in big trouble if he did the additional work..
Do this to a Elder and you are in really big trouble, as that is criminal.
I am sure that many other states have such consumer protection laws.

Fraud is Fraud.

 

[Coppersmith]

I don't even call anything mentioned in OP suspicious behavior, that contractor simply decided what he was willing to bid on and what the cost was. He apparently did not want the job unless he changed everything he said would be changed - and may have reasons for that, like how much liability he may want to take on for anything he left as is.

HO was certainly able to choose someone else that didn't intend to do all that work whether necessary or not.

Like I said it is totally different if they contracted to do certain things and then you find they cut corners and tried to hide it.

If it was just a case of they "want" to change the panel to do the work. That would be fine. They are entitled to accept or decline work for any legal reason.

However in this case, they were committing fraud to get business. It's hard to prove. There is no paper trail or smoking gun (purposely I suspect). I only have the word of the HO. So nothing will be done about it. But it's fraud just the same.

 

[K8MHZ]

I have seen service writers in the car repair business lie to people about 'safety issues' in order to get them to do repairs to their car that cost big bucks. If that's illegal, lots of people would be in jail by now. Unfortunately, the law of the land is pretty much, 'let the buyer beware'.

 

[Fulthrotl]

If it was just a case of they "want" to change the panel to do the work. That would be fine. They are entitled to accept or decline work for any legal reason.

However in this case, they were committing fraud to get business. It's hard to prove. There is no paper trail or smoking gun (purposely I suspect). I only have the word of the HO. So nothing will be done about it. But it's fraud just the same.

my mother in law is about 90 or so. she got hogswaggled on a furnace "repair"
where they wanted about $6k to replace her "failed" forced air unit.

they charged her $700 for the "service call".

what was wrong? combustion air differential pressure switch wouldn't pull in.
why?
combustion air fan wouldn't spin.
why?
squirrels had filled up the flue feeding down into the blower with acorns.
completely full. i got over 5 gallons of acorns out of the flue pipe.

that was all that was wrong.

i had their written report, the quote, and the cancelled check.
they also took parts from the furnace, leaving it inoperable. in the
mountains, in the winter. it snows in julian.

how'd that turn out? mother in law wouldn't sign a complaint.
it wasn't enough money to make a fuss about.

little old ladies are an easy mark.
service providers count on it in some cases.

and the good son in law got replacement parts, and some
wire mesh for the flue so the acorns would stay out, and
installed them, and did nothing about the fraud.

 

[Sierrasparky]

my mother in law is about 90 or so. she got hogswaggled on a furnace "repair"
where they wanted about $6k to replace her "failed" forced air unit.

they charged her $700 for the "service call".

what was wrong? combustion air differential pressure switch wouldn't pull in.
why?
combustion air fan wouldn't spin.
why?
squirrels had filled up the flue feeding down into the blower with acorns.
completely full. i got over 5 gallons of acorns out of the flue pipe.

that was all that was wrong.

i had their written report, the quote, and the cancelled check.
they also took parts from the furnace, leaving it inoperable. in the
mountains, in the winter. it snows in julian.

how'd that turn out? mother in law wouldn't sign a complaint.
it wasn't enough money to make a fuss about.

little old ladies are an easy mark.
service providers count on it in some cases.

and the good son in law got replacement parts, and some
wire mesh for the flue so the acorns would stay out, and
installed them, and did nothing about the fraud.

Yup and that is why they get away with it time and time again.
Personally I feel that if I did that it would come back and bite me in the ass. So I don't.
Why this may bother me is it makes us professionals look bad.

 

[kwired]

Go to a big box store and buy most any appliance, electronics item, etc. and when the cashier rings it up it automatically make the cashier ask the customer if they want to purchase an extended warranty. That is in many ways just as fraudulent IMO, but is hard to prove any wrong doing. How many people actually make a claim on some of them products? And if they do, do they get turned down if they have lost the receipt, proof of purchasing the warranty, etc.? Big ticket items maybe they keep track of such things, but smaller ticket items is nothing but a ripoff as they forget they even purchased the warranty if they ever could use it.

Here in the country every so often someone comes by with an overhead photo of your farm, acreage, etc. Usually very nicely done and with a nice frame and they want to sell it to you - for an outrageous price. I might feel it is a ripoff as my wife can take just as good of a photo and have the print done for way less - does need access to air craft or a drone to get it from that angle though, but others may feel it is fair enough price.