Does dishonesty pay? I hope not.

[Barbqranch]

When I was a teenager, I took my car in for tires, and they took me out to the rack and showed me brake fluid had come out of the cylinder and dripped down the tire. I looked at it and it was only in one direction, not spun all around the tire, so I told them "just put on the tires, I will take it to my regular mechanic". I didn't take it in, I knew it was fake.

Not that I have never been cheated before or since.

 

[Besoeker]

But auto dealers and furniture or appliance stores can sell you accessories you don't need, extended warranties, etc. A lot of money made from those kind of things and some are good at convincing people they need something they really could get by without. Not saying there aren't contractors out there that take advantage of people, but it happens in all types of businesses.

I concur. We bought a new fridge-freezer about a dozen or so years ago. It cost £1,000 - about $1,600 at that time. Despite offering to pay in cash we couldn't negotiating a brass farthing off the purchase price. But three of the sales guys ganged up to a hard sell on an extended warranty. We declined. The appliance is still going strong.

 

[brantmacga]

you had an extra word in that sentence.
i removed it and put it back in your word bucket for another time.

you're welcome.

Hahahaha!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[mstrlucky74]

Sad to say, but lying and ripping people off for work that doesn't need to be done is not a crime.

Right but it's moral "crime"!

 

[GoldDigger]

Sad to say, but lying and ripping people off for work that doesn't need to be done is not a crime.

Actually, the combination of lying and making a profit (benefiting) would seem to make it fraud.
Maybe hard to prove, but still fraud.

 

[roger]

Right but it's moral "crime"!

Yes it is and hopefully it will come back to haunt them.

Actually, the combination of lying and making a profit (benefiting) would seem to make it fraud.
Maybe hard to prove, but still fraud.

Agreed

Roger

 

[kwired]

Actually, the combination of lying and making a profit (benefiting) would seem to make it fraud.
Maybe hard to prove, but still fraud.

And is subject to having a lot of gray areas as well, especially when it comes to repair vs replace with many things these days.

If customer needs a NEMA size 4 motor starter - it may appear I am trying to rip them off by selling them a pump panel, but I can buy complete pump panel with that starter installed in it for less then I can buy the starter alone:blink:

 

[zbang]

Interesting you say that. My local mechanic explained that he can get re-manufactured brake disks delivered for less than the labor cost of turning them (and maybe having to get new ones, anyway). Still turns the disks for some cars, but not many.

 

[kwired]

Interesting you say that. My local mechanic explained that he can get re-manufactured brake disks delivered for less than the labor cost of turning them (and maybe having to get new ones, anyway). Still turns the disks for some cars, but not many.

Mechanics used to replace brushes, diodes, voltage regulators, bearings and drive/gears, now they just put on new or remanufactured starters and alternators.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Right but it's moral "crime"!

Oh I don't disagree and I didn't say it was right, but if you're presented with a contract and sign it, then that means you agree.

 

[cowboyjwc]

Actually, the combination of lying and making a profit (benefiting) would seem to make it fraud.
Maybe hard to prove, but still fraud.

You can see my answer above and I would agree. But other than lying about them needing a new panel, there's not much difference between that and one guy doing service upgrades for $1500 and one doing them for $4500. Is one of those guys ripping you off or does one just have less overhead?

 

[kwired]

You can see my answer above and I would agree. But other than lying about them needing a new panel, there's not much difference between that and one guy doing service upgrades for $1500 and one doing them for $4500. Is one of those guys ripping you off or does one just have less overhead?

The $4500 guy is installing I-Line panels

 

[Coppersmith]

You can see my answer above and I would agree. But other than lying about them needing a new panel, there's not much difference between that and one guy doing service upgrades for $1500 and one doing them for $4500. Is one of those guys ripping you off or does one just have less overhead?

You can sell a product for whatever price you desire and there is nothing wrong with that.

You can tell somebody about a product and attempt to get them to buy it and there is nothing wrong with that.

You can sell somebody an extended warranty for something that rarely breaks and there is nothing wrong with that.

The buyer has the responsibility to know what they need, what they don't need, and what a fair price for it is.

Seller's should not lie. It's unethical, it's not moral, and in a few cases it's illegal. A smart buyer double checks everything a seller says.

A seller cannot "rip you off" if you are agreeing to a purchase. If it's a bad deal for you, it's because you didn't do your due diligence.

I think there is a vast difference between offering to sell a panel at $4500 to someone who needs one (honest, but overpriced), and telling someone their house is about to burn down if they don't buy a new panel for $1500 and they really don't need one (dishonest regardless of price).

 

[growler]

I think there is a vast difference between offering to sell a panel at $4500 to someone who needs one (honest, but overpriced), and telling someone their house is about to burn down if they don't buy a new panel for $1500 and they really don't need one (dishonest regardless of price).

Doctors normally decide how bad you need an expensive treatment (surgery) by the amount of insurance coverage you have.

I think that it's dishonest to upsell items that a customer doesn't need but I doubt it's illegal because it's a matter of opinion. Actaully I don't think I have ever seen a house fire caused by a main breaker panel and I have seen some in really bad shape at the time of change out. Another electrician may have a totally different opinion of the danger.

If dishonesty doesn't pay then go Washington and count the number of poor politicians.

 

[kwired]

Doctors normally decide how bad you need an expensive treatment (surgery) by the amount of insurance coverage you have.

I suppose it happens, but sadly and even more often insurance companies simply say they are not going to cover something no matter how much the doctor claims it is necessary.

 

[petersonra]

I suppose it happens, but sadly and even more often insurance companies simply say they are not going to cover something no matter how much the doctor claims it is necessary.

in fairness, part of the reason we have insurance companies is because very few of us are in a position to make a valid decision on our own health care. in most cases if a doctor recommends something that an insurance company declines, you are entitled to a second opinion.it is pretty rare that an insurance company declines to pay for something that is covered and is recommended by a doctor on a second opinion basis.

the health insurance companies are not in the business of declining to pay for things. they are in the business of paying for the things that are covered by the policies they write, and not things that are unnecessary or not covered for some reason (like aromatherapy). most states have pretty consistent laws on how this works. there are anecdotal accounts from time to time that purport to show how evil the health insurance companies are. but given that in most cases the health insurance companies are forbidden by law from responding in an effective way to the allegations, it is hard to know just how honest these anecdotal claims are.

 

[Sierrasparky]

in fairness, part of the reason we have insurance companies is because very few of us are in a position to make a valid decision on our own health care. in most cases if a doctor recommends something that an insurance company declines, you are entitled to a second opinion.it is pretty rare that an insurance company declines to pay for something that is covered and is recommended by a doctor on a second opinion basis.

the health insurance companies are not in the business of declining to pay for things. they are in the business of paying for the things that are covered by the policies they write, and not things that are unnecessary or not covered for some reason (like aromatherapy). most states have pretty consistent laws on how this works. there are anecdotal accounts from time to time that purport to show how evil the health insurance companies are. but given that in most cases the health insurance companies are forbidden by law from responding in an effective way to the allegations, it is hard to know just how honest these anecdotal claims are.

Insurance adjusters are rewarded to declining claims. They get bonuses. Insurance companies are in the business of profit and are notorious for not paying or paying less than market. There is no time to time there are bad apples. This is what they do.

 

[kwired]

in fairness, part of the reason we have insurance companies is because very few of us are in a position to make a valid decision on our own health care. in most cases if a doctor recommends something that an insurance company declines, you are entitled to a second opinion.it is pretty rare that an insurance company declines to pay for something that is covered and is recommended by a doctor on a second opinion basis.

the health insurance companies are not in the business of declining to pay for things. they are in the business of paying for the things that are covered by the policies they write, and not things that are unnecessary or not covered for some reason (like aromatherapy). most states have pretty consistent laws on how this works. there are anecdotal accounts from time to time that purport to show how evil the health insurance companies are. but given that in most cases the health insurance companies are forbidden by law from responding in an effective way to the allegations, it is hard to know just how honest these anecdotal claims are.

What fantasy world do you live in?

Aromatherapy is nothing, and they may turn it down initially, but compared to some serious cost treatments they would gladly pay for aromatherapy if you were to discontinue pursuing the surgery you want for your condition. I can tell you many cancer patient stories I have heard about where the insurance won't cover something that even second opinion doctors say would likely benefit the patient.

Insurance adjusters are rewarded to declining claims. They get bonuses. Insurance companies are in the business of profit and are notorious for not paying or paying less than market. There is no time to time there are bad apples. This is what they do.

I agree. Anything that is fairly obvious that it is covered, they maybe don't resist much, but anything in a gray area - they won't approve without more action from the client at a minimum.

 

[petersonra]

What fantasy world do you live in?

Aromatherapy is nothing, and they may turn it down initially, but compared to some serious cost treatments they would gladly pay for aromatherapy if you were to discontinue pursuing the surgery you want for your condition. I can tell you many cancer patient stories I have heard about where the insurance won't cover something that even second opinion doctors say would likely benefit the patient.

I agree. Anything that is fairly obvious that it is covered, they maybe don't resist much, but anything in a gray area - they won't approve without more action from the client at a minimum.

I suspect your claim of the second opinion doctor say it might help refers to experimental treatment that virtually no insurance company will pay for. There's just no evidence that any of these experimental treatments actually do any good for the most part. They might and then again they might not. That's why they're experimental. Most experimental treatments just go away because eventually it's found they don't work.

I personally just plain don't believe your claim that insurance adjusters are paid not to approve claims. My experience has been it just doesn't happen that way. What I do see happening is people buy the cheapest possible insurance they can find and then when they go to make a claim they find out that the cheapest insurance they bought doesn't cover their loss. Whose fault is that? A lot of people complain about their car insurance. They will total a car a few weeks after they take it off the car lot. Maybe they paid $30,000 for it. Insurance company says $24,000. That's because that's what it's worth. It's not worth $30,000 anymore. However you can buy insurance that will cover a new car for you. Costs a little more.

Homeowners are in the same boat. They buy the cheapest insurance and then find out that some kinds of claims just aren't covered by that kind of policy. Whose fault is that? The insurance company sold them the cheap policy they wanted. Nobody forced them to buy a cheap policy that doesn't cover certain things. That's why it's cheap.

 

[kwired]

Perhaps the insurance industry isn't doing a good enough job of informing clients what is and isn't covered when they sell policies?

We buy insurance for the unknown, yet it is unknown what will come up and you later discover it wasn't covered by the policy.