So my answers are above in red. We have these pop up all the time. I have called UL on these things several times to find that they are not in fact listed (yet) and that some of the corrections I was calling were the same concerns that UL had. I have found these panels that had the neutrals and grounds bonded, I have had the panels two feet back inside of a stainless steel cabinet, non GFCI receptacles, etc. Why would you think that the load calculation would not be necessary on the plans. How would you know what to run and how would the inspector know what you were supposed to run? Or how would you know if the panel it was coming from was of sufficient size to carry the load?
Now as a disclaimer I was up until 3:00 this morning and am not running on all cylinders so I may have missed something.
Just putting 2 and 2 together - you are an inspector in CA, Charlie claimed to be having a problem with an inspector in CA.....
But I have to agree with you - if one can prove there is a fraudulent claim the item is listed, if the listing is valid - inspection stops at the supply terminations.
Is this the old dodge of just using a UL listed power cord and pretending that the sticker on the coed applies to the whole equipment? Or just the fact that some specific models have been NRTL tested but other variations have not?
I would think that, unlike the situation for a UL panel shop, each variation would have to be directly tested.
Not every listed item is directly tested - that would add a lot of cost to everything. I don't know all the rules here but would guess there may be random sample testing at times, or re-testing whenever a change is made to a product. A product like we have in this thread may be able to be built by some kind of approved panel shop or equivalent, but probably still has some kind of regular auditing of what they have been doing to make sure they are in compliance with listings. If equipment has optional standard configurations, each configuration is probably on file in one way or another for listing purposes - if they are legitimate listed options .
Well now you guys have really stirred up a can of worms....:lol:
Sounds like this job just got more expensive!
If I were owner I would be thinking about either returning the product, filing lawsuit, or somehow getting the supplier to make things right.
I had a recent call they are building a new jail in my county, I am not the electrician nor am I involved in any way with this project other then I am a taxpayer. The county opted to have a company bring in some "modular" jail cells, that supposedly they build off site with plumbing, wiring, everything necessary in the unit and they ship to the site and install them. I got a call one day from the company that sold these cells, and one of first things the guy leaves in his message is we need someone to file permits..... I was completely not interested in even returning his call - and never did, this comment alone sent a red flag up for me and I didn't even pay much attention to anything else in the message. A few weeks later I happened to be on a job with the area inspector and asked him if he was having trouble with the crew installing those cells - he pretty much assured me of my suspicions that I wanted nothing to do with that job. They are from out of state, have no state licenses, don't have any listing on their product either, then of course there are issues with the wiring construction/methods that are a part of these units.
