Does this Fitting Require a Bushing?

[hillbilly]

Looks good (and compliant) to me.

steve

 

[infinity]

Not a raceway, so regardless of conductor size no bushing is required.

 

[LJSMITH1]

Pierre, I would say that this installation meets NEC requirements.

UL514B requires cable and conduit fittings to have a smooth throat entry so that there is no sharp inside edge for the conductors to be damaged on. If the fitting has a radius or chamfer on the ID edge of the throat, it should be just fine. Addition of bushings to conduit ends only apply to "loose" conductors inside a conduit that are larger than 4AWG, not SE NM Cable.

From UL 514B

5.3.1 A FITTING shall be constructed to allow assembly to a cable or raceway as intended without damaging the cable or raceway. A part of a FITTING that makes contact with an insulated conductor shall be smooth and rounded.

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Pierre, I would say that this installation meets NEC requirements.

UL514B requires cable and conduit fittings to have a smooth throat entry so that there is no sharp inside edge for the conductors to be damaged on. If the fitting has a radius or chamfer on the ID edge of the throat, it should be just fine. Addition of bushings to conduit ends only apply to "loose" conductors inside a conduit that are larger than 4AWG, not SE NM Cable.

From UL 514B

You have an advantage most of us do not have...the actual Standards.

Not that I don't have standards, but my standards are not UL Standards. :wink::grin:

 

[don_resqcapt19]

I tried to make this section apply to cables and still think that it should. The panel did not comment on the part of the proposal that would make the section apply to cables in either the ROP or ROC.

3-12 Log #2255 NEC-P03 Final Action: Accept in Principle
(300.4(F))
____________________________________________________________
Submitter: Donald A. Ganiere, Ottawa, IL
Comment on Proposal No: 3-34
Recommendation: The proposal should be accepted.
Substantiation: The panel rejected this proposal with a statement that said: “It
covers all raceways where 4 AWG and larger conductors enter a cabinet, box,
enclosure, or raceway.” If the code rule actually said that there would have
been no reason for this proposal, however the code rule doesn’t say where
“conductors enter the enclosure”, it says where “raceways containing
conductors enter enclosures”. The current wording only requires protection for
ungrounded conductors #4 and larger where the raceway itself enters the
enclosure. The only two raceways that actually enter the enclosure are the
threaded raceways, RMC and IMC. The other raceways terminate at a
connector and the connector, not the raceway enters the enclosure. The other
point that this proposal attempts to address is protection for the ungrounded
conductors of cables. The code doesn’t now require the use of an insulated
fitting to protect the ungrounded conductors of cables where they enter
enclosures. If the cable jacket does not extend into the enclosure beyond the
metallic cable connector, there is the same potential for problems as there is
where raceways are used without an insulated bushing.
Panel Meeting Action: Accept in Principle
Revise the 2005 NEC text in 300.4(F) to read:
“Where raceways containing ungrounded conductors 4 AWG or larger
ungrounded conductors and these conductors enter a cabinet, box enclosure, or
raceway, the conductors shall be protected by a substantial fitting providing a
smoothly rounded insulating surface, unless the conductors are separated from
the fitting or raceway by substantial insulating material that is securely fastened
in place.”
Existing exception and second paragraph remain unchanged.
Panel Statement: The text was clarified to indicate that the key issue is not the
raceway entering the cabinet, box, or raceway but rather the 4 AWG and larger
conductors entering these enclosures being properly protected with a
substantial fitting with a smoothly insulated surface.
Number Eligible to Vote: 13
Ballot Results: Affirmative: 13
____________________________________________________________

 

[Meremac]

Bushing?

Bushing?

While I like to show a little more sheath, I think I'd worry more about the concentric KOs that have already been distorted and may fail in time. Neither a sheath nor a bushing will protect the conductor insulation from the raw edges lurking beyond the connector.

Perhaps some "pie-plate" reducing washers to spread the load would be in order. While installing the washers you could add some pretty colored bushing to show them you care.

 

[JohnJ0906]

I tried to make this section apply to cables and still think that it should. The panel did not comment on the part of the proposal that would make the section apply to cables in either the ROP or ROC.

This is a common installation around here (SE cable/connector) and has been for decades. Almost never have I seen a bushing used. Never have I seen a problem from the lack of a bushing, even in a 30-40 year old installation.
Why do you feel that a bushing is required?

 

[infinity]

This is a common installation around here (SE cable/connector) and has been for decades. Almost never have I seen a bushing used. Never have I seen a problem from the lack of a bushing, even in a 30-40 year old installation.
Why do you feel that a bushing is required?

In looking at the photo, if the cable is properly tightened within the fitting and secured within 12" of the termination IMO the use of a bushing will provide no real added margin of safety.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

In looking at the photo, if the cable is properly tightened within the fitting and secured within 12" of the termination IMO the use of a bushing will provide no real added margin of safety.

I think that could be said for most raceway runs with # 4 wire in it also. I don't use #4 se cable very often but when I do I use a bushing.

 

[don_resqcapt19]

This is a common installation around here (SE cable/connector) and has been for decades. Almost never have I seen a bushing used. Never have I seen a problem from the lack of a bushing, even in a 30-40 year old installation.
Why do you feel that a bushing is required?

First I am a conduit guy and I don't like cables:grin:. Second I see no real difference between a EMT connector or a cable connector as far as the protection of the conductors within the enclosure. If the EMT connector requires a bushing, the cable connector also requires a bushing.

 

[SEO]

I agree that the connectors are about the same as far as protection but the sheathing on a cable will give added protection to the conductors contained within. If the sheathing is beyond the connector what is the hazzard?

 

[PetrosA]

That looks like a 6/2 SE to me, so 3/4" conn. and it's good to go. Around here, any cable in a KO larger than 3/4" needs to have a bushing or it won't pass inspection. The only thing in that photo that would fail is that the stranded neutral isn't taped. White, gray or green, but it has to be taped.

 

[infinity]

That looks like a 6/2 SE to me, so 3/4" conn. and it's good to go. Around here, any cable in a KO larger than 3/4" needs to have a bushing or it won't pass inspection. The only thing in that photo that would fail is that the stranded neutral isn't taped. White, gray or green, but it has to be taped.

It looks more like 4 conductor SER to me. That's why there is a white tracer on the conductor to the left and the EGC is within the jacket and not around the other conductors like in SEU. And why would you tape a bare EGC green?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

That looks like a 6/2 SE to me, so 3/4" conn. and it's good to go. Around here, any cable in a KO larger than 3/4" needs to have a bushing or it won't pass inspection. The only thing in that photo that would fail is that the stranded neutral isn't taped. White, gray or green, but it has to be taped.

The cable is 4/0 Aluminum.
The equipment ground conductor is bare, it is not required to be identified green, it can stay bare.
(if it was a neutral conductor, it would not require further identification either)
Where did you find the requirement that 3/4 connectors require a bushing?

 

[PetrosA]

...That's why there is a white tracer on the conductor... And why would you tape a bare EGC green?

The cable is 4/0 Aluminum.
The equipment ground conductor is bare, it is not required to be identified green, it can stay bare.
(if it was a neutral conductor, it would not require further identification either)
Where did you find the requirement that 3/4 connectors require a bushing?

Sorry guys, I've had a long weekend and my brain is doing its own thing :grin: I missed that it was a riser and thought it was 2+1 wire SE

For riser cables - in the area of PA where I work, you have to tape the ground green. You can talk code till you're blue in the face, you still won't get your sticker until it's taped. Solid grounds, OTOH can stay bare. I know, it doesn't make sense, but that's how it is here. It's easier and better for relations with the inspector just to tape it and be done with it. Personally, I'm not a fan of any bare grounds (even in romex), but that's my preference.

Similarly, neutrals in an SE cable (the kind you twist yourself) have to be taped at the drop, in the meter can, and in the panel. No sticker unless taped. We used to be allowed to use plain black tape for that, but now it has to be white or gray. Maybe it's a POCO thing. I dunno...

I don't know where the 1" and larger bushing thing comes from. It's been like that here for as long as I can remember and again, no bushing, no sticker. It really frustrates me with PVC installs, since it's so simple to ease the edge of the connector. Even if the termad did cut into the wire, so what? But no, you gotta have a bushing. BTW, ever wonder why they don't round the edges of termads at the molding stage?

 

[macmikeman]

When I wire panels near the ocean while using alum ser,I slide some no- alox along the bare grounding conductor of ser once I strip the sheath, then I like to run green tape over it. Laugh if you must, but I have opened plenty of panels in beachside houses where that bare conductor unprotected and left bare, has turned to white/yellow mush powder even inside in the interior of sub panels. Thats about the only time I tape the bare with green though. The other one way I waste money is to install a plastic bushing over cable connectors when they have #4 or larger conductor cables run thru them, so now we are back on the subject of the thread. It keeps the inspector happy and that is worth the 60 cents extra.

 

[electricmanscott]

. Personally, I'm not a fan of any bare grounds (even in romex), but that's my preference.

Similarly, neutrals in an SE cable (the kind you twist yourself) have to be taped at the drop, in the meter can, and in the panel. No sticker unless taped. We used to be allowed to use plain black tape for that, but now it has to be white or gray. Maybe it's a POCO thing. I dunno...

Care to share why?


How do people come up with this stuff? :-?

 

[Pierre C Belarge]

Care to share why?


How do people come up with this stuff? :-?

It is called "Personal Preference Code", of course based on personal preference.

 

[PetrosA]

Care to share why?


How do people come up with this stuff? :-?

I was an EMT baby. My first wires were THHN and BX so no bare anything (well, except for the ground wire in the BX, but that never got terminated). I first saw romex as an electrician when I was about 18-19 and of course back then we worked panels hot as a matter of course. I got bit a number of times from touching a ground wire while working in a panel and hitting something hot at the same time. Later, in Europe, I got reamed once for installing a metal breaker box. (To this day I'm not sure how they were selling it since evidently you're not allowed to use metal panels over there.) The concept is that if there are no surfaces that could potentially get energized and few if any solidly grounded surfaces, the safer it is for everyone.

Bare grounds in romex mean that you have to take care folding in and pulling out devices so that the ground doesn't hit the hot screw of a device or load side neutral on a GFI and pulling a bare ground out of a live panel is a real exercise in living dangerously . When I make up MC or piped boxes, I usually use a jumper to the box and another to the device if needed, and leave the grounds insulated. Like Pierre said, it's a personal preference thing

 

[iwire]

For riser cables - in the area of PA where I work, you have to tape the ground green. You can talk code till you're blue in the face, you still won't get your sticker until it's taped...


....Similarly, neutrals in an SE cable (the kind you twist yourself) have to be taped at the drop, in the meter can, and in the panel. No sticker unless taped.

How do people come up with this stuff?

It is called "Personal Preference Code of course based on personal preference.

Like Pierre said, it's a personal preference thing

I don't know, I see no 'personal preference thing' when inspectors make us do things that are well beyond code and add nothing to electrical safety.