Drywall Nightmares

[electricmanscott]

Yes, his costs have not dropped, they have increased so of course he should actually raise his prices, I learned that here. If sales are poor raising prices is the way to go

That's how the gub'mint does it! :grin:

 

[K8MHZ]

I have used the digital camera technique for years. It's tough to argue with a photograph.

A couple months ago I got a Canon PowerShot that takes great pictures, real good videos and fits in my pocket. SD cards are around 10 bucks a gig or less.

When I prove the boxes are buried, I give the GC the choice of me digging it our or having the drywaller do it. I also mention that I only do the digging, not the re-finishing as I am terrible at it.

Another thing I hate is when the drywallers use my boxes as a template by placing the sheet rock up against the wall and pounding on the sheetrock with a hammer, making indentations in the sheet rock with the boxes.

 

[Podagrower]

Part of the problem is the sheetrock hangers are being paid by the board. Not the opening. Cutting our boxes out takes up their time. Sometimes the hangers do the finishing, sometimes not, but almost always they don't have to patch or repair. If the GC and drywall contractor don't have a good relationship with the hangers, the electrician is in trouble. Fly-by-Night Drywall Hanging, INK is not any better than Trunkslammers Electrical, INK.

Mark the floor with paint. After the drywall is hung, and before it is finished, tell the GC how many boxes are covered, don't give locations. After the unit is painted tell the GC and Drywall Contractor how many boxes are covered in each unit and tell them it will cost them $75 for each box you find. When you trim it out, use a hammer, keyhole saw, trim screwdriver, hatchet, CHAINSAW:grinhighly effective), boot, or whatever you have handy.

 

[CopperTone]

this all you can do - at the next job meeting with the drywall company and GC present - ask for the process to be added of marking the floor. This usually solves the problem. Also, state that all buried boxes will be backcharged for finding them and digging them out, backcharges for all cut wiring too.
If you kept screwing up the job you can gaurantee that after being told to stop doing that the GC would back charge you so why can't you do the same. Their time is money and so is yours.

Be civil first - backcharge next.

I job we were on a few years back we were not very neat with our waste - we basically dropped everything on the floor and the laborers would clean it up - the laborers didn't mind because it kept them busy but after a job meeting the GC basically said that all subs will be backcharged for picking up their own waste from here on out - guess what? it magically became one of the cleaned worksites I've ever worked on.

 

[daleuger]

Sometimes it is just because the person does not care.

Many times it is just a mistake, I don't want to shock anyone but I make mistakes while doing my job. I drilled into a water line just a short time ago and more recently I pulled the wrong wire out of an underground conduit adding a few hours to my day. Things happens. :smile:

The difference is Bob that when you make mistakes, hey even if you made mistake after mistake after mistake that you would correct them if they were pointed out and were legitimate mistakes. A lot of rockers we've seen.....not so much.

 

[Fulthrotl]

I have used the digital camera technique for years. It's tough to argue with a photograph.

A couple months ago I got a Canon PowerShot that takes great pictures, real good videos and fits in my pocket. SD cards are around 10 bucks a gig or less.

something i have done, where there was a lot at stake, is this......

we were being paid to treat discharge water from a trenching operation,
and to prevent either the municipal government involved, or their management
firm from wiggling out of the bill, which was what they were expecting to do,
we used a certified, calibrated flowmeter, and every morning, i took a photo
of the meter, and printed it. then, i took the digital photo and made it into a
pdf file, and timestamped it, to prove when it was taken. acrobat professional
can put an unchangeable time stamp on a pdf file, that is admissible in court.
the photo, letter of transmittal, and daily log were all put on a separate pdf
for each day, and then burned onto a CD rom, which was included with
the letter of transmittal, every day. so there was a history included from the
first reading of the meter, to the current day. every day. overkill? maybe,
but the municipality involved didn't get to wiggle out of the fees, like they
planned on doing from the beginning....

so, it was worth 18 cents times the number on the meter.... and that was
just for the first month....... more money was made on treating the water,
than was made on the rest of the job as a whole, and it was a $24 million
project. in this case, a picture wasn't worth a thousand words, it was worth
$2,351,160.

 

[greg y]

You know i look now at the situation and realize the "DAYS" of everyone working together { the other trades} with everyone are over and the pride in some work is not there anymore. I personally take pride in passing rough and final inspections the first time around.

 

[JohnJ0906]

In residential, I generally find buried boxes with little damage. I don't mind taking the time - the backcharge is T&M

Use the 6'/12' or 2'/4' layout to find the approximate location, than use a straightedge (4' level, trim, etc) to find the bulge, and a thin screwdriver to poke a hole to feel for the box.

I try to be a professional - that means not using a hammer, my boot, etc. Although, sometimes I am sorely tempted.

 

[jrannis]

something i have done, where there was a lot at stake, is this......

we were being paid to treat discharge water from a trenching operation,
and to prevent either the municipal government involved, or their management
firm from wiggling out of the bill, which was what they were expecting to do,
we used a certified, calibrated flowmeter, and every morning, i took a photo
of the meter, and printed it. then, i took the digital photo and made it into a
pdf file, and timestamped it, to prove when it was taken. acrobat professional
can put an unchangeable time stamp on a pdf file, that is admissible in court.
the photo, letter of transmittal, and daily log were all put on a separate pdf
for each day, and then burned onto a CD rom, which was included with
the letter of transmittal, every day. so there was a history included from the
first reading of the meter, to the current day. every day. overkill? maybe,
but the municipality involved didn't get to wiggle out of the fees, like they
planned on doing from the beginning....

so, it was worth 18 cents times the number on the meter.... and that was
just for the first month....... more money was made on treating the water,
than was made on the rest of the job as a whole, and it was a $24 million
project. in this case, a picture wasn't worth a thousand words, it was worth
$2,351,160.

I would be mad if they buried my watermeter behind the drywall too!

 

[iwire]

The difference is Bob that when you make mistakes, hey even if you made mistake after mistake after mistake that you would correct them if they were pointed out and were legitimate mistakes. A lot of rockers we've seen.....not so much.

I still don't see that others peoples lack of caring gives me the right to smash holes in the walls of someones home or business.

If I was building a home I would not want a lot of needless patches in my new walls. Patches that will be made by the uncaring crew that buried the boxes in the first place. Those quick patches often are no more then a layer of drywall tape and some mud.

 

[daleuger]

I still don't see that others peoples lack of caring gives me the right to smash holes in the walls of someones home or business.

If I was building a home I would not want a lot of needless patches in my new walls. Patches that will be made by the uncaring crew that buried the boxes in the first place. Those quick patches often are no more then a layer of drywall tape and some mud.

Agreed on that point. Keep in mind though that tearing up their work should be a last resort after every other method of resolving it has been exhausted.

That being said it's still funny to joke about what overkill weapon you're gonna use to find your boxes.

 

[iwire]

That being said it's still funny to joke about what overkill weapon you're gonna use to find your boxes.

True enough.

 

[realolman]

Agreed on that point. Keep in mind though that tearing up their work should be a last resort after every other method of resolving it has been exhausted.

That being said it's still funny to joke about what overkill weapon you're gonna use to find your boxes.

I have a mosquito shotgun for sale, if anybody's interested.:smile:

 

[roger]

I simply use the electrical inspectors. When the job is turned down at the final due to boxes, devices, and or recessed fixtures missing, I tell the GC to call me when they are uncovered and we will return (with a back charge) to finish.

On a side note, you have to be sure you didn't miss anything on the RI if you're using this method.

Roger

 

[Mr.Sparkle]

I simply use the electrical inspectors. When the job is turned down at the final due to boxes, devices, and or recessed fixtures missing, I tell the GC to call me when they are uncovered and we will return (with a back charge) to finish.

On a side note, you have to be sure you didn't miss anything on the RI if you're using this method.

Roger

I like the idea but I would like to hear the opinions from some of the EI's on here if they were to come out for a final and the EC says "Oh yeah that stuff isn't working because somewhere over there there are some buried boxes."

I would think the EI would be like "So........you were aware of this and I am here for a final?"

Just curious as to what side of the fence some of the EI's would be on if they were used to prove a point in this manner.

 

[zappy]

How about some 4" 6-32's on every box?

 

[electricalperson]

How about some 4" 6-32's on every box?

good idea

 

[daleuger]

I like the idea but I would like to hear the opinions from some of the EI's on here if they were to come out for a final and the EC says "Oh yeah that stuff isn't working because somewhere over there there are some buried boxes."

I would think the EI would be like "So........you were aware of this and I am here for a final?"

Just curious as to what side of the fence some of the EI's would be on if they were used to prove a point in this manner.

Guess it would depend on one's rapport with said EI. Could let him in on the gag beforehand. :smile:

Don't think that would work with most though. How can you hit power on everything unless you didn't pull wire for the buried boxes? And if it's MC.....LOOK OUT!

 

[Fulthrotl]

On a side note, you have to be sure you didn't miss anything on the RI if you're using this method.

Roger

i was a first year apprentice on a tract that we were trimming. the stucco
crew went out of their way to fill every exterior box level full. the walls were
finished, color coat was on, all done.

after about five houses like this, the foreman took a hammer to find the WP
on the back of the house. facing the rear of the house, he started at eye
level, and broke out the plaster on each side of each stud until he found the
wire on the right hand third of the house, then he followed it every foot
down the stud to the box...... cleaned out the box, trimmed it, and moved
to the next house's back wall... same deal.

he got to the third house, and started across, and got all the way to the
far corner, and no wire..... the rough in crew missed it. :grin:

he *quickly* ran to the truck, got a box and a piece of wire, beat a hole
on the right elevation, nailed the box in place, etc.

and went on to the next house..... same plan.

 

[roger]

I like the idea but I would like to hear the opinions from some of the EI's on here if they were to come out for a final and the EC says "Oh yeah that stuff isn't working because somewhere over there there are some buried boxes."

I would think the EI would be like "So........you were aware of this and I am here for a final?"

Just curious as to what side of the fence some of the EI's would be on if they were used to prove a point in this manner.

Why do you think I'm using the EI to make a point? I'm just letting them fail the installation until whoever created the problem makes it right.

It really doesn't matter to me what the EI says, if it's someone else's fault, it's someone else's fault and I will be back charging the GC, he can do what he will with it.

If the GC allows another trade to damage or cover up my work, the GC and responsible trade will be making the repair accessible to me and paying for my time and re-inspection fee.

If you do it differently, that's up to you.

BTW, I will tell the GC that there are problems before I call for the final but, if he chooses not to listen, then at some time I will call it in even with the problems still existing.

Roger