Duplex Garage wiring

[don_resqcapt19]

You would need to have shut the door while you are still inside then have it fail. Not impossible yet not too likely unless you are doing some other activity besides just parking your car in there.

Most garages are used for activities other than parking the vehicle. However, I have never seen a dwelling unit garage that did not have a personnel door. They might exist, but they don't exist in my area.

 

[LarryFine]

There's always this:

 

[GoldDigger]

Family Circus (I think) cartoon. Kid ask other kid what he wants to be when he grows up.
"An architect. I've got all kinds of great ideas I want to try out."
"Like?"
"Well, for one thing, a special room as part of a house that you can park your car in"
"You mean like a garage?"
"Yes, only for cars."

 

[PaulMmn]

A half hour a day?
You know it only takes about 10 seconds for a door to go up or down?

That means three times up and three times down in one minute. In order to use that door for a half hour you would have to open it and close it 90 times a day. Give me a break. It literally is about $0.10 per month

And people need to get over their principal when they're trying to compare $0.10 per month versus potentially $5,000 or $6,000 for a service upgrade in order to accommodate the house panel to put in a 20 amp circuit.

No, code does not prohibit it. It's not a dwelling. It's a detached garage.

As quoted above:
210.25(B)
Branch circuits installed for lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other purposes for public or common areas of a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.
.
I'd call this "a multi-occupancy building."

 

[LarryFine]

For example, I own a home with an apartment attached and their own meter. I also have a 2 car garage detached. I want my tenant to be able to use the garage also... Would It be non-compliant if my panel fed that garage?

As long as you always live there as the management on premises, that should work.

 

[James L]

As quoted above:
210.25(B)
Branch circuits installed for lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other purposes for public or common areas of a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

I don't believe that applies

.
I'd call this "a multi-occupancy building."

I wouldn't.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

As long as you always live there as the management on premises, that should work.

Firstly, I want to say my example is hypothetical. lol Secondly, does that not sound strange-- I move out and then I have to redo everything. IMO, there is something wrong with this section.

 

[Hv&Lv]

Firstly, I want to say my example is hypothetical. lol Secondly, does that not sound strange-- I move out and then I have to redo everything. IMO, there is something wrong with this section.

Do I sense a public input or comment coming for the 2026??

BTW, some of the links are broken on the
The NEC Cycle Process FAQs

 

[Fred B]

I'd call this "a multi-occupancy building."

I wouldn't.

What would you call a building that has more than one individual occupancy then?

 

[Fred B]

210.25 is not complied with in many cases. For example, I own a home with an apartment attached and their own meter. I also have a 2 car garage detached. I want my tenant to be able to use the garage also... Would It be non-compliant if my panel fed that garage?

It isn't that simple to throw out 210.25 and tell the owner a house meter is required

That is where it gets messy after the previously owner occupied unit later becomes a rental unit. As an owner occupied the garage on owners meter wouldn't be an issue, no different than having a "house meter", but when "all" units are rentals then 210.25 would be appropriately required.

If there is no personnel door to the garage, it is not a place I would choose to live at for that very reason, I want a personnel door so I can access my car when there is a power failure.

Got a Call to a garage that the Owner had barricaded the personnel door from the inside and only had a power door opener for the overhead doors and no windows. (He was afraid someone was going to break in and steal the antique cars he had.) A truck hit the pole and snapped it off and ripped the triplex off the mast bending it and the panel was inside. No way to get inside to rewire.

 

[James L]

What would you call a building that has more than one individual occupancy then?

What building are you talking about?

 

[hbiss]

Whose on first?

-Hal

 

[kwired]

That is where it gets messy after the previously owner occupied unit later becomes a rental unit. As an owner occupied the garage on owners meter wouldn't be an issue, no different than having a "house meter", but when "all" units are rentals then 210.25 would be appropriately required.


Got a Call to a garage that the Owner had barricaded the personnel door from the inside and only had a power door opener for the overhead doors and no windows. (He was afraid someone was going to break in and steal the antique cars he had.) A truck hit the pole and snapped it off and ripped the triplex off the mast bending it and the panel was inside. No way to get inside to rewire.

Easy solution is for code to require arrangement to easily convert to an additional meter for a "house panel" if ever necessary in the future. This means you probably will need to install the "house panel" but could supply it from the owners meter either somewhat directly or via their main panel. Should a house meter ever end up being desired all you need to do is a little modification the feed to the already existing house panel.

Otherwise you know owner is not going to want to pay an electric bill every month that is basically a minimum fee but no significant energy charges and will end up canceling that service from utility and move the supply circuit it to their own panel anyway. Will do it themselves or find some handyman if needed to get it done.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Easy solution is for code to require arrangement to easily convert to an additional meter for a "house panel" if ever necessary in the future. This means you probably will need to install the "house panel" but could supply it from the owners meter either somewhat directly or via their main panel. Should a house meter ever end up being desired all you need to do is a little modification the feed to the already existing house panel.

Otherwise you know owner is not going to want to pay an electric bill every month that is basically a minimum fee but no significant energy charges and will end up canceling that service from utility and move the supply circuit it to their own panel anyway. Will do it themselves or find some handyman if needed to get it done.

I would rather see a house panel required for 3 or more apartments. Or maybe an exclusion for a single family home that is converted to have an apt.

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Here is where it gets sticky. Suppose I have a single family dwelling but I convert my basement to an apartment- I leave it as one meter. Now do I need a common area meter for the detached garage??????

210.25 Branch Circuits in Buildings with More Than One Occupancy.
(A) Dwelling Unit Branch Circuits.
Branch circuits in each dwelling unit shall supply only loads within that dwelling unit or loads associated only with that dwelling unit.

(B) Common Area Branch Circuits.

Branch circuits installed for lighting, central alarm, signal, communications, or other purposes for public or common areas of a two-family dwelling, a multifamily dwelling, or a multi-occupancy building shall not be supplied from equipment that supplies an individual dwelling unit or tenant space.

 

[kwired]

I would rather see a house panel required for 3 or more apartments. Or maybe an exclusion for a single family home that is converted to have an apt.

Single family home with apartment conversion for part of it gets bought by someone that doesn't plan to live in it is no different than if it were a genuine duplex.

Some those don't necessarily even have a second meter anyway, but they don't always have tenant access to overcurrent devices either.

 

[James L]

Here is where it gets sticky. Suppose I have a single family dwelling but I convert my basement to an apartment- I leave it as one meter. Now do I need a common area meter for the detached garage??????

Just as important, is that detached garage considered a building with more than one occupancy? I'm not talking about the house, but the garage by itself. If it's not a building with more than one occupancy, then that code doesn't even apply

 

[Dennis Alwon]

Just as important, is that detached garage considered a building with more than one occupancy? I'm not talking about the house, but the garage by itself. If it's not a building with more than one occupancy, then that code doesn't even apply

That comes back to whether the common area can be the detached garage. That is not defined. Usually the dwelling encompasses all buildings on the property. My point being why would 2 meters at the house change the status or do you believe the garage should never come into play with 210.25

 

[LarryFine]

Whose on first?

What?

 

[James L]

That comes back to whether the common area can be the detached garage. That is not defined. Usually the dwelling encompasses all buildings on the property. My point being why would 2 meters at the house change the status or do you believe the garage should never come into play with 210.25

I think the use of the word building in the singular excludes that detached second building