Duplex outlet current rating

[Jerramundi]

A 15A 5-15R receptacle will only accept a 5-15P 15A plug. It will not accept a 20A plug (5-20P). However, the 20A 5-20R receptacle will accept both a 5-15 plug and a 5-20 plug. Those are the ones with the T slot.

I already addressed this in a previous post. None of this is new information to me, but thanks.

This is why there are 15 and 20 A receptacles.

I know why there are 15A and 20A receptacles. The comment to which you are responding was a half joke, half criticism of industry... and one you guys regularly make yourselves in regards to things like AFCI's.

Rarely would you ever need to use a 20A receptacle in residential since nothing would have a 20A plug...

Well, this is severely misleading. Kitchen countertops?

...installers mistakenly believe that a 20A circuit requires a 20A receptacle. Except for a single receptacle on a 20A circuit that is not the case.

Don't start with the "installers" garbage. If you want to support the degradation of people who work in this trade by calling them "installers" then that's on you, but I hate that term and think it's absolute garbage. It's just a way to pay workers less.

And yes, per an explicit reading of the code, like the laundry branch circuit, the requirement to provide a 20A circuit does not necessarily require you to install a 20A receptacle. I fully comprehend that notion. But outside of an explicit reading of the code, in a common sense interpretation, it is also rather counterintuitive to say you've provided a 20A circuit that will not allow for the insertion of a 20A cord.

 

[Jerramundi]

The whole device is rated at 20A, not specific portions of it.

The individual components may be capable of handling a 20A capacity, but to say "the device is rated at 20A" is not accurate IMO.
The specifications identify them as 15A receptacles. Even if it is just the faceplate that makes the distinction, and behind the iron curtain the device's components are actually able to handle a capacity of 20A, to say a 15A receptacle is actually a 20A receptacle is dangerously misleading, IMO.

Provided they are of equal quality the only difference between a 15A and 20A recpt is the shape of the slots in the plastic face. It's been that way longer than I've been alive and probably longer than you and I combined have been alive.

That may be the case and I was aware of this prior to this thread. My entire point of contention started with the very simple idea that I distinctly recall seeing on past specification sheets that 15A receptacles had a 20A feed through rating and I was simply trying to address that issue and distinguish whether or not my understanding of the feed through rating was correct.

 

[Jerramundi]

@Jerramundi
Have you seen this?

Table 210.21(B)(3) Receptacle Ratings for Various Size Circuits
Circuit Rating
(Amperes)
15 - 15A receptacle rating
20 - 15A or 20A receptacle rating
30 - 30A receptacle rating
40 - 40A or 50A receptacle rating
50 - 50A receptacle rating

Yes. A thousand times Bill, but thanks.

 

[lshaff01]

Hi it's me again. Just wanted to thank everybody for the good discussion. I guess the answer is:

for a 20 amp receptacle :
a) 20 amps feed through
b) 20 amps per output,
c) 20 amps total

for a 15 amp receptacle:
a) 20 amps feed through
b) 15 amps per output,
c) 15 amps total.

it's funny that Home Depot charges $1.31 for a 15 amp tamper resistant duplex receptacle and $4.35 for a 20 amp tamper resistant duplex receptacle. If the only difference is the face plate, that's highway robbery. We need to start a campaign and get that changed.

 

[Jerramundi]

Nothing in household receptacle wiring is in series; everything is in parallel. Even if you jumper from one receptacle to the next the receptacles themselves are in parallel.

When wired like THIS and I see it ALL THE TIME, this puts the receptacle in SERIES.
The current for the entire load downstream must flow through the components of the receptacle.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------



THIS is a PROPER PARALLEL wiring job.

I could have drawn a proper pipe and wire diagram, but I was insulted by the implication that I don't understand this so I just threw this together quickly with Larry's above graphic.

I see guys wire receptacles like this ALL. THE. TIME... and it most certainly does put the receptacle in SERIES.

 

[ggunn]

View attachment 2561241

When wired like this and I see it ALL THE TIME, this puts the receptacle in SERIES. The current for the entire load downstream must flow through the components of the receptacle.

View attachment 2561242

THIS is a proper PARALLEL wiring job.

You are correct that all the current must pass through the same wire and the jumpers in the first picture, but the receptacles themselves are wired in parallel. I would bet that the jumpers on the receptacles have a higher ampacity than the wiring does, so they are not a weak link. It would be extremely unpractical to wire every receptacle in a house with a home run back to the panel.

 

[Jerramundi]

It would be extremely unpractical to wire every receptacle in a house with a home run back to the panel.

My drawing does NOT advocate for this. And it is extremely poor of you to try and imply that this is what I'm trying to say.
You know what I'm trying to say with those drawings, if you're an electrician.

Which is the difference between landing the line side of the circuit on one set of terminals and the load side on the other set VERSUS a proper pigtail from a wirenut.

 

[david luchini]

My drawing does NOT advocate for this. And it is extremely poor of you to try and imply that this is what I'm trying to say.
You know what I'm trying to say with those drawings, if you're an electrician.
Which is the difference between landing the line side of the circuit on one set of terminals and the load side on the other set VERSUS a proper pigtail from a wirenut.

Pigtails are not a Code requirement. And the receptacles are wired in parallel with both methods.

 

[Jerramundi]

Pigtails are not a Code requirement.

IMO they should be.

And the receptacles are wired in parallel with both methods.

Disagree. A failed receptacle in the first drawing will result in an open circuit. A failed receptacle in the second drawing will not.

 

[david luchini]

Disagree. IMO they should be.

Disagree with what? Your opinions aren't the Code.

 

[Jerramundi]

Disagree with what? Your opinions aren't the Code.

I never said my opinions were the almighty code.
I said it was my opinion that pigtails should be required... and I'm allowed to have that opinion.

I disagree that the first drawing is a parallel installation. The receptacle is in series with the line and load sides of the circuit.
That metal bar connecting the terminal screws is in series with the line and load sides.

 

[david luchini]

I never said my opinions were the almighty code.
I said it was my opinion that pigtails should be required... and I'm allowed to have that opinion.

Your opinion is irrelevant to the fact that the Code does not require pigtails.

Or to the fact that the receptacles are wired in parallel in both instances.

 

[Jerramundi]

Your opinion is irrelevant to the fact that the Code does not require pigtails.

Well then I suppose all submissions by anyone that thinks code is wrong or worded poorly are pointless then, aren't they?
I'll get to work on creating a shrine for the NEC in my closet with your picture above it, lol.

Or to the fact that the receptacles are wired in parallel in both instances.

Disagree.

 

[wwhitney]

And the receptacles are wired in parallel with both methods.

The receptacles are electrically in parallel in either case. But the receptacle hot side contacts (and separately the neutral side contacts) are in series in one case.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[Jerramundi]

When wired as it is in the first drawing, that metal bar connecting the terminal screws is in series with the line the load sides.
That is my position and it is NOT changing. Have a wonderful day.

 

[ggunn]

Well then I suppose all submissions by anyone that thinks code is wrong or worded poorly are pointless then, aren't they?
I'll get to work on creating a shrine for the NEC in my closet with your picture above it, lol.


Disagree.

The receptacles are all wired in parallel. If they were in series something would need to be plugged into the first outlet for the second to get power and the current to both appliances would flow through both of them.

 

[wwhitney]

for a 15 amp receptacle:
a) 20 amps feed through
b) 15 amps per output,
c) 15 amps total.

I think (c) is 20 amps. 20A circuit, only outlet is a duplex 15A receptacle, plug (2) 10A non-continuous loads into it, no problem.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[ggunn]

When wired as it is in the first drawing, that metal bar connecting the terminal screws is in series with the line the load sides.
That is my position and it is NOT changing. Have a wonderful day.

The sky is blue! No, the grass is green!

 

[ggunn]

When wired as it is in the first drawing, that metal bar connecting the terminal screws is in series with the line the load sides.
That is my position and it is NOT changing. Have a wonderful day.

No one is contesting that. The outlets, however, are all in parallel. The jumpers are not a weak point; they have at least as much ampacity as the wiring.

My drawing does NOT advocate for this. And it is extremely poor of you to try and imply that this is what I'm trying to say.
You know what I'm trying to say with those drawings, if you're an electrician.

I did nothing of the kind, and I'll thank you to keep personalities out of this.