# Electric circuit

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
Where are the circuit breakers?

" I'm looking for a diagram that shows how the electricity flows from the circuit breaker through the load.... "
Be creative and draw your own breaker in, the rest of the work is done for you.

Roger

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Then what's your question? Forget the NEC definition, in a two wire circuit both sides of a load see the same current, in fact with a single load it is a series circuit

Roger
Since this is an NEC forum, I figured for the sake of discussions, we would be using the definition provided by the NEC. That definition is in Article 100.

I looked on line for a definition of the neutral outside of the NEC and they all said basically the same thing as the NEC. Some even mention that the neutral is designed to carry current. Where are the definitions coming from that require the neutral to not carry current?

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
So if I only connect a single breaker to my residential service, there will be no neutral? That doesn't sound quite right to me.
Nope, the service would have a neutral, the circuit wouldn't
I wasn't the one asking for the drawing.
Well hopefully the OP can understand the circuit, if not he can draw in a breaker.

Roger

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
" A Neutral Conductor is defined as the conductor connected to the neutral point of a system that is intended to carry current under normal conditions. "

In the drawing that Roger posted, the grounded conductor is connected to the neutral part of the system. Obviously, it will carry current under normal conditions. So why is the grounded conductor labeled as not being a neutral, that is my question. It is labeled like it was a 120 volt only system, not a 120/240 volt system.

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Nope, the service would be have as neutral, the circuit wouldn't

Roger

That's my point. In the drawing, the service does have a neutral. Otherwise how would you get 120/240 single phase?

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Well hopefully the OP can understand the circuit, if not he can draw in a breaker.

Roger

Just a guess. but I think if he understood the circuit he would not be coming to the Internet to learn how to draw one.

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
That's my point. In the drawing, the service does have a neutral. Otherwise how would you get 120/240 single phase?
Look at it again, the conductors on the primary side of the windings are not called out or identified, they are not part of the conversation. Hold a piece of paper over them so you aren't confused

Roger

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
Just a guess. but I think if he understood the circuit he would not be coming to the Internet to learn how to draw one.
Let's give him some credit, and he can ask if he needs something else don't you think?

Roger

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Look at it again, the conductors on the primary side of the windings are not called out or identified, they are not part of the conversation. Hold a piece of paper over them so you aren't confused

Roger
The primary conductors are not shown, just the 120/240 volt secondaries and they are labeled as 120, 240 volt and the midpoint conductor is shown as grounded.

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
If there's current flowing in it, it's not "neutral".

" Neutral Conductor - Is a conductor that carries current in normal conditions. It is connected to ground at the neutral point in the system."

#### LarryFine

##### Master Electrician Electric Contractor Richmond VA
Where are the circuit breakers?

" I'm looking for a diagram that shows how the electricity flows from the circuit breaker through the load.... "
Either of these help? (click-able)

If not, look here for more:

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
" Neutral Conductor - Is a conductor that carries current in normal conditions. It is connected to ground at the neutral point in the system."

You have to forget the NEC definition if you want an accurate definition, remember the NEC calls "bonding" conductors "grounding" conductors even in ungrounded systems.

Roger

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
You have to forget the NEC definition if you want an accurate definition, remember the NEC calls "bonding" conductors "grounding" conductors even in ungrounded systems.

Roger
You do have a point there. So can you point me to a link that dictates the neutral conductor must not carry current? Or a link that describes the neutral conductor in a different manner than the NEC?

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Either of these help? (click-able)

View attachment 2554539 View attachment 2554540

If not, look here for more:
That's pretty good, actually. And it shows the 120 volt breaker that would be returning all of it's load back through a conductor marked neutral.

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
That's pretty good, actually. And it shows the 120 volt breaker that would be returning all of it's load back through a conductor marked neutral.
Think about that, 60 times a second the current is returning through the breaker.

Roger

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
Think about that, 60 times a second the current is returning through the breaker.

Roger
So what does that have to do with what a conductor is called? I don't get what you are trying to say.

#### K8MHZ

##### Senior Member
So, if a neutral conductor is a conductor that is not made to have current on it, why is it there? That kind of throws me and makes me lean toward the NEC's definition. Which, BTW, is the law in most parts.

#### roger

##### Moderator
Staff member
So what does that have to do with what a conductor is called? I don't get what you are trying to say.
Because, the statement that it is "returning all of it's load back through the conductor marked neutral" is only true half the time, the other half the time it is returning through the breaker.

Roger