Electrical Contracting without a Liscense?

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tadavidson

tadavidson

Senior Member
Location
Georgia
Occupation
Electrical Contractor
How do temp agencies put thier clients on your job? The temp agency pays the temp employee making the person thier employee or in most cases I've heard of pays the temp with a 1099 making the person a self employed contractor (electrical). In Georgia it is my understanding that to do electrical work 1)You must be liscensed or (2)the employee of a liscensed contractor or company doing business with a liscense holder employed (3) Unless you work for a industry that all work is overseen by an engineer. Before you guys get going on me I go ahead and admit I know I am an idiot. I'm ok with that. It get worse as I get older. I'm certain there is a reasonable explanation, I just haven't been edumacated.
 
I have never used temp. help on my jobs however the way I look at it is if I did hire temps it would be for labor intensive work. But even if they were pulling wire,nailing boxes and such I am the lic. elect. I am overseeing the install and directing the job and not leaving the temps. to do the work on their on. So I see no problem with using temps. if needed
 
Using a temp worker is not electrical contracting on the part of the employee. You are still the one doing the contracting and as such, assume responsibility for the work.

When I first went into business, I used a temp agency to handle my employee affairs: They did all the payroll, paid the taxes, insurance, etc. I would fax the time cards over to the temp agency, and the workers would collect their paychecks from them.

I got an invoice once a week from the temp agency, and paid them to handle all the headaches of dealing with employees. Since that was their main line of work, it was a win-win situation.
 
Temp Agency Ruled Electrical Contractor

Temp Agency Ruled Electrical Contractor

There was a case in Oklahoma where a temp agency was providing licensed journeymen to electrical contractors. But the attorney general ruled that the temp agency was the true employer of the journeymen, and as such, needed to be a licensed electrical contractor. Makes sense to me...
 
my point exactly. If any one is engauged in electrical work they must either be Liscensed or the EMPLOYEE of a Liscenced contractor or company. If they are paid with a 1099 they are representing they are contracting and if electrical work was the work of the month they were contracting without a liscense. The temp companies are contracting electrical work without a liscense if thier EMPLOYEES are doing electrical work.
 
kbsparky said:
Using a temp worker is not electrical contracting on the part of the employee. You are still the one doing the contracting and as such, assume responsibility for the work.

When I first went into business, I used a temp agency to handle my employee affairs: They did all the payroll, paid the taxes, insurance, etc. I would fax the time cards over to the temp agency, and the workers would collect their paychecks from them.

I got an invoice once a week from the temp agency, and paid them to handle all the headaches of dealing with employees. Since that was their main line of work, it was a win-win situation.
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They were not your employees. They were employees of the Temp Agency and no matter how easy it was Temp Agency employees are doing electrical work so the Temp Agency is illegaly contracting electrical work.
 
TAD, I think the way the law is written in each state would determine whose license the employee is serving.

I'd say in general, a temp agency for electricians should have an EC license, and the employees should be serving under a master under that license. They receive their paychecks from the temp company, so in order to mirror a traditional EC they should have the licenses.

In the real world, I'm not sure how it shakes down, or if the state would get too worked up, so long as apprentices are working under the proper ratio of supervision as determined by the state, on site.
 
tadavidson said:
my point exactly. If any one is engauged in electrical work they must either be Liscensed or the EMPLOYEE of a Liscenced contractor or company. If they are paid with a 1099 they are representing they are contracting and if electrical work was the work of the month they were contracting without a liscense. The temp companies are contracting electrical work without a liscense if thier EMPLOYEES are doing electrical work.
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It really depends on the State. Some States don't even have a license requirement. Mine is one of them, some of the cities in Indiana have requirements but not many. Indianapolis has a requirement to be licensed but to me it seems they are really only interested in the revenue they can collect from you, the inspection system is a JOKE here. Then there are some of our neighbor towns that have no local license requirement but have great inspectors. If I was a home owner I would opt for the latter. But it would be legal for a temp agency in Indianapolis to hire out Electricians since they would be working under the EC. Oh by the way a 1099 doesn't mean it is contract work a 1099 is for Miscellaneous Income. and ofcource any work done and paid for could be considered "contract" work if used very loosely. My personal opinion is that it would be much better if the government would get out of my business. I don't have a contract with them but they keep taking my money anyway.
 
Bikeindy, without a liscense requirement, I quess anybody who can buy a piece of wire and a wirenut can install it.
what is the going rate for an electrician (or should i say a person doing electrical work) in your state or area. Even with Georgia requiring a liscense the competition is great (liscensed and moonlighters) and supply and demand being what it is a small company trying to abide by the insurance laws and employement laws and tax laws has a difficult time making IT. By the waY Do you know of any stats on the number of electrocutions or fires in your area and how would you rate the overall quality of electrical work there?
 
tadavidson said:
They were not your employees. They were employees of the Temp Agency and no matter how easy it was Temp Agency employees are doing electrical work so the Temp Agency is illegaly contracting electrical work.
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I don't buy your line of thinking. The Temp agency did not hold itself out to the public for electrical contracting. I did that. I was on the job, supervising the workers. I merely contracted with the temp agency to handle the administrative part of handling payroll. The workers were screened and hired by me. Once hired, I referred them to the temp agency for the required paperwork.

Employee Leasing is one term used to describe this process.

Using this procedure, I did not have to obtain workmans Comp, nor pay any unemployment taxes.

And, FWIW, none of the "employees" received a 1099 form. Their wages were properly reported on W-2's.
 
depends on where you are contracting at.....

depends on where you are contracting at.....

tadavidson said:
How do temp agencies put thier clients on your job? The temp agency pays the temp employee making the person thier employee or in most cases I've heard of pays the temp with a 1099 making the person a self employed contractor (electrical). In Georgia it is my understanding that to do electrical work 1)You must be liscensed or (2)the employee of a liscensed contractor or company doing business with a liscense holder employed (3) Unless you work for a industry that all work is overseen by an engineer. Before you guys get going on me I go ahead and admit I know I am an idiot. I'm ok with that. It get worse as I get older. I'm certain there is a reasonable explanation, I just haven't been edumacated.
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in calif. you are required to have a journeyman's license to perform work,
and a contractors license if the job total exceeds $500, which explains
all the craigslist specials for 4 kitchen can lights in the soffit for $499...

for that matter, there is a service advertising on craigslist that will send
you a number of different trades, with the guarantee that "no job will be
over $500"....

around here, if you strap on the tools, you need a journeyman's license,
but the state hasn't the means to enforce it... so it's a toothless law at
this point.... you do need a JW license to clear out of any electricians
local, except for the one serving LADWP, as they are exempt from
the JW license issue.



randy
 
Fulthrotl said:
in calif. you are required to have a journeyman's license to perform work,


Fulthrotl

as a Ca EC . I need to correct you a bit. Yes you need to be a certified JM to work on your own for only a licensed C-10 contractor. A C-10 contractor may have 10 JM and 10 Trainees as long as there is a 1-1 JM to TR.
You can work as an employee for a general contractor "B" installing Electriacl regardless of training and qualifacations.
Your JM license does not authorize you to do any installation by yourself and contracted by yourself.
Anyone can do work under 500 dollars total.
The license for JM is relatively new. I suppose in a few years Inspectors will be asking to see your card.
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Sierrasparky what are the abbreviations.
JM, certified JM ,licensed C-10 contractor. TR
general contractor "B"

In Georgia you have a Licensed or employee of a liscensed Electrician allowed to work in electrical field. Unless you are Union. Then terms apply such a apprentice, journeyman, and possibly more. I not knowledgable about Unions.

If someone can enlighten me please do.
 
no problem..
JM - journeyman (certified by the state, passed test )
C-10 classification of Electrical contractor in Calif. C-10 holder is allowed to
contract and do the work himslef.

General contractor or "B" classification. Can contract or do the work himself, hire subcontractors to do various trades.
 
tadavidson said:
Who issued the W-2? Employers issue w-2 forms to thier employees. To do electrical work in Georgia (all I can speak on)you must be liscensed or the employee of a liscensed.... Anyone not falling into one of the above catergories is contracting without a liscense.check out this link

http://www.sos.state.ga.us/acrobat/examboards/construction/EC/excerpts.pdf
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I checked out your link, and could not find anything that prohibits the practice of outsourcing one's payroll duties to another company. Regardless of who issued the W-2, the employees were working under the direct supervision of the licensed master electrician on the job, materially fulfillilng the statutory requirements.
 
What is the extent of the test? What is different in the test of the jm and the c10.
Why does the c10 require a 1:1 but not the "b".
Would it be fair to say the B is the more desireable of the two?
What is extent of the test or requirements that allow the "B" to have persons do electrical work?

I apologize for the third degree.
 
I believe the statement is made in the first three paragraphs. with regards to performing repair, installing electrical devices or equipment. (electrical contracting)

It does not say nor imply that as long as a licenced electrical contractor supervises the duties of the workers the installation is covered.

As for someone to do the payroll duties I don't argue that point. many people hire CPA's to do theit payroll/ No problem with that.

The person who signs the check must be the employer/ Electrical Contractor or a corp or company.with a liscened Qualifier.

By the way is that John candy in your avator?
The temp agency may be ok in just providing men to do a job. But the men they send a person is certainly doing the work defined as electrical contracting. which they cannot do according to para 3.
 
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