Electrical Contracting without a Liscense?

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B licsnse is a general contractor. He is licensed to do the entire project not just electrical. He can do the plumbing ,concrete, framing ... In order for the B License to contract a job he must contract for at least three trades I belive.
The crazy part is that He can do his own electrical even if he knows nothing about it. He can hire any joe blow off the street as an employee to wire the place, and with no supervision.

California only made the law to pertain to Electrical contractrors (C-10)
 
I think this law about a c10 require cert. electrial worker is all about money. I think its was lobby by the some union. :)
 
I heard it was lobbied by the IBEW. they could care less about the General contractor thing because most union jobs reguire that the contractor be acutually licensed in that trade. They probobly never considerd the single family housing market where the GC could do all the trades.:roll:
 
Division of Apprenticeship Standards (DAS) have almost zero enforcement. Only the contractors board have some sort of enforement. But only enforce the contracting lic.
 
Sierrasparky said:
B licsnse is a general contractor..
The crazy part is that He can do his own electrical even if he knows nothing about it. He can hire any joe blow off the street as an employee to wire the place, and with no supervision.

California only made the law to pertain to Electrical contractrors (C-10)
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THIS IS THE MOST OUTRAGEOUS SLAP IN THE FACE, KICK IN THE PANTS, UNREASONABLE STATEMENT IN REFERENCE TO THE BUILDING TRADE I HAVE EVER BEEN EXPOSED TO. Incredible. I thought some of Georgias junk was it but now I ..... A small electrical job requires a liscense and trained people but a big job doesn't. Brings the Troops back from Iraq, There are terrorist in California.
 
How is a temp agency any different than a union?.The union isn't licensed.
Any way Tadavidson license is spelled license not liscense.
 
Sierrasparky said:
B licsnse is a general contractor. He is licensed to do the entire project not just electrical. He can do the plumbing ,concrete, framing ... In order for the B License to contract a job he must contract for at least three trades I belive.
The crazy part is that He can do his own electrical even if he knows nothing about it. He can hire any joe blow off the street as an employee to wire the place, and with no supervision.

California only made the law to pertain to Electrical contractrors (C-10)
Click to expand...

The requirement that electricians be certified pertains to electricians working for Electrical Contractors, not the Electrical Contractors themselves. As you know, there are no penalties for violations of this law, but if there were, it would be the uncertified electrician, not the Electrical Contractor who would be penalized...
 
sorry if you mis understood me.
I was just pointing out that general contractors don't need to hire certificated employees. as do Electrical contractors.

Yes there are fines. You could be disciplined by the contractors board for violation of the labor code.

The labor board can fine the contractor.
The inspector could shut down the job. (maybe)

It's not all sorted out but they could make the small contractor's life hell.
 
tadavidson said:
Bikeindy, without a liscense requirement, I quess anybody who can buy a piece of wire and a wirenut can install it.
what is the going rate for an electrician (or should i say a person doing electrical work) in your state or area. Even with Georgia requiring a liscense the competition is great (liscensed and moonlighters) and supply and demand being what it is a small company trying to abide by the insurance laws and employement laws and tax laws has a difficult time making IT. By the waY Do you know of any stats on the number of electrocutions or fires in your area and how would you rate the overall quality of electrical work there?
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Well I don't suspect they would be in business very long but i suppose anyone who could buy wire and install it could call themself an EC. It all goes back to consumers being aware of who they hire. I don't think we have very many fires or electrocutions around here due to the non licensing. A kid was just Electrocuted on the Campus of Purdue U. I quess that work was done by licensed qualified union guys and that kid didn't belong where he was. and some guy just died this morning in his house fire cuz he went back in after his precious cell phone.

I think if you do good work and charge a reasonable rate you shouldn't have a hard time making it at all.
 
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Sierrasparky said:
sorry if you mis understood me.
I was just pointing out that general contractors don't need to hire certificated employees. as do Electrical contractors.

Yes there are fines. You could be disciplined by the contractors board for violation of the labor code.

The labor board can fine the contractor.
The inspector could shut down the job. (maybe)

It's not all sorted out but they could make the small contractor's life hell.
Click to expand...

None of those statements can be supported by fact.
 
First my apologies to the original poster.... But this subject is my personal pet peev...

In CA an electrical contracor (C-10), or even a "B", or for that matter an ice cream shop can employ anyone they like! (so long as they don't disciminate...) And call that person an "electrician"... The onus is not on the employer to require that the electrician be certified by the state. That responcability is with the employee of the C-10 to be certified to install or service anything over 100va.

The only time a C-10 is required to have certified workers at this point is on Public Works projects, due to the requirement to hire apprentices for that work...

There is nothing in the B&P code that regulates employers and contractors that says they need to pay any attention what-so-ever about the certification requirements of thier employees - except aspestos workers...

This is an apprenticeship and training law... And governs entry to, and training of the trade. The only penalty to an employer is this dope deal is that if an employer doesn't follow the rules of training an apprentice - he might not be dispatched anymore apprentices. He can still employ anyone he wants at this point. And hopefully that will change!

At one point this law said, "all employees of a C-10 contractor" needed to be certified to perform electrical work, and later changed to "persons who perform work for" an EC - when they changed that wording, they removed the onus from the employer and placed it on the employee. In doing that they made it unenforcable and screwed the worker in the process. As training and compliance is now his problem.

~As used in this section, "electricians" includes all persons
who engage in the connection of electrical devices for electrical
contractors licensed pursuant to Section 7058 of the Business and
Professions Code, specifically, contractors classified as electrical
contractors in the Contractors' State License Board Rules and
Regulations. This section does not apply to electrical connections
under 100 volt-amperes.~

~Persons who perform work as electricians shall
become certified pursuant to Section 3099 by the deadline specified
in this subdivision. After the applicable deadline, uncertified
persons may not perform electrical work for which certification is
required.


~Certification is required only for those persons who perform
work as electricians for contractors licensed as class C-10
electrical contractors~
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As far as enforcement goes - the DAS itself is in violation IMO...
3099(4) On or before July 1, 2001, establish and adopt regulations to
enforce this section.
Click to expand...


The law is here in section 3099: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/displaycode?section=lab&group=03001-04000&file=3070-3099.5

And the regulations of the same law can be found here: http://www.dir.ca.gov/DAS/ecu/Leg-Reg-List.html
 
Interesting...in VA to be an EC you have to be 1.) Master Electrician and 2.) Class A, B or C Contractors license. Also if you are a B or A contractor you have to also take an additional proctored test with the state as well.

Now the EC can hire anyone they wish and put them on the job....they are working under the masters license and in the end the the weight is on the Master Electrician to ensure it is being done correctly.

Contracting electrical work in VA without a license has a $ 1,000 fine per day from the date the infraction started.....plus other criminal charges.

However...does that stop people.....sadly NOPE......
 
The reason the temps dont need a license is because they are not contracting electrical work . They are only leasing employees to do what you need them to do. Thats the business they are in. You are the one doing the electrical CONTRACTING. Therefore you need the license. They're not out there bidding and managing work. Thats what we do.
 
I served on several test writing panels for the CSLB recently. This topic was discused greatly. I have a differing opinion.
Please see this
http://www.cslb.ca.gov/news/industry20070205.asp

Contractors State License Board Warns Electricians That Deadline for Certification Has Passed

Sacramento ?- In 1999, legislation was passed requiring all electricians who work for a C-10 electrical contractor to be certified by the state of California. Regulations were put in place in 2002. The deadline for residential electricians getting this certification was January 1, 2007. The deadline for general electricians and fire/life/safety electricians was a year ago January 1, 2006. Electricians who are not certified by this time are working illegally.
The Contractors State License Board (CSLB) is urging all electricians who work for C-10 electrical contractors to immediately sign up to take a certification exam. Not complying with the law could subject the licensee to administrative action by the CSLB. It could potentially open these contractors and workers up to civil suits should there be problems with work done by an uncertified worker.

The CSLB has the right to get involved in any of your buisness relating to CSLB licensure. If you don't pull permits and get caught the can cause you trouble. If you get a compliant they get involved.

The labor board too can get involved in labor issues.... Will these departments bother the small guy.????
The inspectors to can get involved..The may do so indirectly by submitting a complaint to the proper authority.. Will they..

All I know is that both departments know it applies to all C-10 contractors. Not just public work jobs
Just cause you don;t think its an issue is somewhat close minded. Ya never know when they may make a sting..

I bet that you all did not know that CAL OSHA can cite contractors on private small house remodels.. Well they can...
 
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