Electrical panel sales

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oldsparky52 said:
I agree completely. The "pros" often hire incompetent workers. I used to shake my head often at the people working in the field. It is amazing how many people are performing work w/out understanding what it is they are doing.
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Yup, in full agreement with you.
 
SceneryDriver said:
Exactly. I'm not a licensed electrician. I'm an industrial controls designer who happens to design and build things for the Lighting and Entertainment industry. In fact, there really is no "license" for the work I do.

That said, I daresay I would put my panel and conduit work up against any licensed individual. I design and build my panels to meet/exceed UL508A even if we can't sticker them due to byzantine UL listing requirements, and my installs meet or exceed NEC requirements.

Licensing SHOULD prove that a person has the skills and knowledge to perform a task that, if improperly done, could constitute a hazard to others. In reality, holding a license does not teach or enforce pride in workmanship and attention to detail - that responsibility falls to the individual, and how they were trained.

Limiting sale of electrical materials to only licensed professionals is unnecessarily restrictive, and would probably do little to curb hack work. Hacks are gonna hack, regardless...


SceneryDriver
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That and anyone can work under someone else's license.
 
Besides the home centers stock the panels and their employees wouldn't recognized a licensed contractor or a permit if it bit them.

I get very upset when I run in their quickly and here them giving dangerously wrong advice to customers.
 
jeff48356 said:
Not all contractors drive trucks. I'm an EC, and I am able to handle everything with a Chevy Impala. I only do residential work, so I seldom need to carry anything that doesn't fit easily into a car.
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I acknowledged that situation in my post:

Coppersmith said:
What annoys me more is the parking spaces marked for pros only. I see all sorts of "civilians" parked there. IMHO if the vehicle doesn't have a licence number on it or a copy of a licence in the window, the car should be towed. (I'm not kidding.)
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Coppersmith said:
I acknowledged that situation in my post: ...copy of a licence in the window...
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So we should be posting our name and whatever other private information on our license on our dash for anyone to take note of. No thank you. And for a private company's parking spaces? It's bad enough my HVAC wholesale house has six handicapped spaces immediately in front of it. In ten years, not one car has been in any of them, and the rest of us are carrying our motors across the parking lot.
 
Last year I installed a mini-split unit at home. I bought the unit at Home Depot (they had them in the store) and bought all the installation parts from SupplyHouse.com. I hired an hvac guy to evacuate it since I don't own a vacuum pump. I saved several thousand dollars doing so and would easily install another one myself in the future.
 
MAC702 said:
So we should be posting our name and whatever other private information on our license on our dash for anyone to take note of. No thank you. And for a private company's parking spaces? It's bad enough my HVAC wholesale house has six handicapped spaces immediately in front of it. In ten years, not one car has been in any of them, and the rest of us are carrying our motors across the parking lot.
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I'm not sure how Nevada works, but here anybody can look up my license number or business name (both of which are on my truck) and get my name and address. There is no private information.
 
peter d said:
Last year I installed a mini-split unit at home. I bought the unit at Home Depot (they had them in the store) and bought all the installation parts from SupplyHouse.com. I hired an hvac guy to evacuate it since I don't own a vacuum pump. I saved several thousand dollars doing so and would easily install another one myself in the future.
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There are some mini split units geared toward DIY's out there. Never seen one but have seen ads for them. They come with precharged linesets with quick connectors on them - just plug them in and no pumping down, but you have to figure out how to route excess line.
 
kwired said:
For a stage set that is not permanent - maybe not. Permanent wiring that remains in the venue after a production is done, usually would require licensing and permits most places.
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You are correct; I've never run into a situation where anything that was part of a set was considered as needing a permit. Even equipment that is installed as part of a production that will be there for years is almost always cord-and-plug connected. The plugs may be... large (Cam-Loks) but it's not hard wired.

I've worked in NYC and Chicago - two of the most stringent locales for electrical safety in the country. To my knowledge, no fire inspectors have ever demanded permits for stage electrics and automation systems. They absolutely demanded that proper and code-compliant wiring practices and materials were used (and they were right to do so) but they never wanted anything permitted.

Code-compliant isn't really an issue, usually; stagehands are so rough on equipment that it's designed and build with conservative engineering and construction techniques.

You can design to several increasing levels of durability:

1) Residential
2) Commercial
3) Industrial
4) Mining and Marine
5) Tactical nuclear weapon strike-proof
6) Stagehand resistant

:D


SceneryDriver
 
kwired said:
There are some mini split units geared toward DIY's out there. Never seen one but have seen ads for them. They come with precharged linesets with quick connectors on them - just plug them in and no pumping down, but you have to figure out how to route excess line.
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This was not that type. It required a line set and other hardware.

Bottom line - all that matters is that one is qualified to do a particular kind of work. A license is just a permission slip from the government to make your living. It means nothing in regard to one's ability to do a particular kind of work.
 
peter d said:
Bottom line - all that matters is that one is qualified to do a particular kind of work. A license is just a permission slip from the government to make your living. It means nothing in regard to one's ability to do a particular kind of work.
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I have no issue with licensing when you are doing something for hire. Your own work, you should be able to do anything. Helping a buddy, line gets a little blurry, but many things IMO is still ok.

Some professions - licensing maybe is a little more important, not too many want to have healthcare from someone not licensed, but some still will push that just to save some $$, me, I'd still rather they at least be a veterinarian, nurse, or have some sort of knowledge in their regular work ab out medical stuff.

Funny one - in a nearby town one of the volunteer EMT's is also a funeral director, possible conflict of interest if you are really bad shape and he shows up in the ambulance?:)
 
kwired said:
Funny one - in a nearby town one of the volunteer EMT's is also a funeral director, possible conflict of interest if you are really bad shape and he shows up in the ambulance?:)
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"I've got good news and I've got bad news . . . " :blink:
 
Been reading all the comments and I'll add my two cents. Home Depot, Lowes, etc. are consumer stores regardless of the lip service they pay to contractors. Having service equipment available and on display sends a message to any idiot that walks in that, hey, everything I need is right here. I'll go watch a YouTube video and save all kinds of money. Screw that sparkey who wanted $2,500.

I understand what some are saying, but if you have any qualifications you would know where to get your supplies if Big Box were restricted from handling them. I didn't say licensed as being a qualifier either. I'm just saying that by not dangling them in front of the terminally dumb that walk through those stores every day you eliminate at least some of the dangerous work. Out of sight- out of mind.

-Hal
 
jeff48356 said:
I need your opinions here: Do you think big-box stores and electrical supply houses should restrict sales of panels to licensed electrical contractors only? HVAC has been doing that already for decades. Only a licensed HVAC contractor can purchase a furnace or an A/C condenser. So why should electrical be any different? It would surely cut down on hacks such as in the video below, if they no longer have easy access to panels.

Home Depot, for example, could probably implement this rather easily. They already have a policy where you need to show your ID at the register if you buy spray paint, to prove that you're at least 18. They could start a policy where you have to show a valid electrical contractor (or master electrician) license in order to buy a panel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJsfzzqaOAA
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More sales I would assume. That's a government function, not a private enterprise...

What would be next, restrict the sale of receptacles?
 
You can't get in too much trouble replacing receptacles and switches.

A long time ago back when cable TV wasn't encoded, one cable company successfully sued and got hardware stores in their operating area (back before Home Depots and internet sales) to stop selling coax, splitters and other cable material to combat theft of service.

-Hal
 
peter d said:
This was not that type. It required a line set and other hardware.

Bottom line - all that matters is that one is qualified to do a particular kind of work. A license is just a permission slip from the government to make your living. It means nothing in regard to one's ability to do a particular kind of work.
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I could be making $100,000 a year without a license- truck, tools, business card and I'm all set.
 
mbrooke said:
I could be making $100,000 a year without a license- truck, tools, business card and I'm all set.
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And you can make even more if you drop your insurance, pay any employees cash and don't report it - to include not paying FICA, unemployment, etc., make purchases on stolen credit cards...:)
 
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