elevator machine room

[dmanda24]

Scenario
-existing elevator machine room is being fitted with a sprinkler head
- There is a FACP in the premises
-heat sensor needed 24" from sprinkler to shut off power
-smoke detector esl 429crt is present in the machine room,not within 24" of sprinkler

questions
- does the new heat sensor have to be connected to the FACP
- smoke detector (429crt) is also a fixed rate heat detector, if I relocate it to be within 24" of the sprinkler head will that meet both the heat sensor and the smoke detector requirements.
- relays on the 429crt are being used to connect the unit as a 4 wire smoke detector, how can I connect the unit to to the shunt trip breaker?

 

[pgordon]

I belive NFPA72 requires all sprinkler systems to be hooked up to facp.Even resi. ones. In addtion if premis is not manned 24-7 it has to be hooked to a central staion

 

[dmanda24]

I belive NFPA72 requires all sprinkler systems to be hooked up to facp.Even resi. ones. In addtion if premis is not manned 24-7 it has to be hooked to a central staion

Sprinkler system is hooked up to the FACP via flow and tamper switches, Iam asking about the heat sensor that will open the shunt trip

 

[pgordon]

I believe that ALL fire devices within a premise that has a fire alarm control panel must be tied in to it. this is why ADT can't come in and just put a system smoke any where they want. they have to be tied in together . I hope this helps.

 

[pgordon]

sorry, u can use a 2 pole heat

 

[LLSolutions]

I would tie all the devices into the facp and then let the facp control the shunt trip via a relay

 

[brennan]

No it will not work correctly. You will have to add a heat and use a relay this is energized when the heat trips. You also need to supervise the 120VAC to the shunt trip breaker.

 

[dmanda24]

No it will not work correctly. You will have to add a heat and use a relay this is energized when the heat trips. You also need to supervise the 120VAC to the shunt trip breaker.

how would you do this?

 

[pgordon]

I would tie all the devices into the facp and then let the facp control the shunt trip via a relay

This sure will work and meet nfpa 72 code

 

[brennan]

When the heat zone goes into alarm program the FACP to trip or turn on a relay.

 

[brennan]

Now I have seen heats wired up as a switch. So when the heat trips it closes the circuit and trips the Shunt trip breaker. But in my opinion this is wrong.

 

[brennan]

Oh sorry. I am not for sure since I have not done this. But there is a relay or something you put on the 120VAC side when there is not power it closes causing a supervisory at the FACP.

 

[benaround]

brennan,

Heat detectors are rated at 125vac, why would that be wrong??

 

[quogueelectric]

First of all as I see it NONE of you are qualified to design a fire alarm system. You would think that after doing a couple you would learn afew standards but NO. You have neither the knowledge the qualifications or the licences nor insurance to dabble in such systems. This post should be closed. You are installers not designers. Some moron will design the system where the shunt trip shuts down the elevator pumps when a fire is detected efectively trapping the occupants in the fire. You are dangerous stick to paddlefans. This scenario was discussed in a previous post stick with what you know which is not much from what I can see. Makes me sick. You should be arrested performing such work without approved drawings or knowledge of the trade.

 

[brennan]

First of all as I see it NONE of you are qualified to design a fire alarm system. You would think that after doing a couple you would learn afew standards but NO. You have neither the knowledge the qualifications or the licences nor insurance to dabble in such systems. This post should be closed. You are installers not designers. Some moron will design the system where the shunt trip shuts down the elevator pumps when a fire is detected efectively trapping the occupants in the fire. You are dangerous stick to paddlefans. This scenario was discussed in a previous post stick with what you know which is not much from what I can see. Makes me sick. You should be arrested performing such work without approved drawings or knowledge of the trade.

I am qualified to design a fire alarm system. I am NICET Level 3.

 

[brennan]

brennan,

Heat detectors are rated at 125vac, why would that be wrong??

Because it is not supervised or connected to the FACP to set off signals or call monitoring.

 

[pgordon]

First of all as I see it NONE of you are qualified to design a fire alarm system. You would think that after doing a couple you would learn afew standards but NO. You have neither the knowledge the qualifications or the licences nor insurance to dabble in such systems. This post should be closed. You are installers not designers. Some moron will design the system where the shunt trip shuts down the elevator pumps when a fire is detected efectively trapping the occupants in the fire. You are dangerous stick to paddlefans. This scenario was discussed in a previous post stick with what you know which is not much from what I can see. Makes me sick. You should be arrested performing such work without approved drawings or knowledge of the trade.

Nobody said any thing about design build. All massachusetts fire alarms must be ee stamped.My first commercial fire alarm system was in 1979. with hunreds of installs following the stamped drawing . and YES tons of elevator recall. All have passed ahj inpections. licensed and insured for fire alarm installations.so screw you mister !!!!!!!!

 

[quogueelectric]

I am qualified to design a fire alarm system. I am NICET Level 3.

What do you do when people are in the cab an the shunt trip stops the cab between floors in a fire? The facp is supposed to trip an elevator recall contact which brings the cab down and opens the doors. Unless the fire is detected in the lobby of the floor of recall then there is supposed to be an alternate floor relay to bring the cab to an alternate floor. Why would anyone design a system that traps people in an elevator in a fire?

 

[pgordon]

massachusetts = no shunt trip at all. no sprinkler at all. mech room and lobby recall to prime . 2nd 3rd.fls ect... to alt. no more pit smoke, no more shaft heat .State elevator inspections once a year.

 

[dmanda24]

What do you do when people are in the cab an the shunt trip stops the cab between floors in a fire? The facp is supposed to trip an elevator recall contact which brings the cab down and opens the doors. Unless the fire is detected in the lobby of the floor of recall then there is supposed to be an alternate floor relay to bring the cab to an alternate floor. Why would anyone design a system that traps people in an elevator in a fire?

Wherever there is a heat detector there is a smoke detector, the smoke detector will go into alarm first 99.99% of the time and it will initiate the recall, once the heat detector trips the shunt the elevator has already been recalled.