Elevator recall needed?

I am looking for an exception for NOT having a elevator recall on an elevator. We do not believe the recall is nessarry, but cannot find a code article for an exception. (though we were told we do not need a recall, by the manufacture) Here is the situation: New construction, elevator travels less than 25', stops at 2 floors, no smoke/fire alarm in the building, the car opens to the SAME lobby/ air space, office building with no visitors.

Hint: NFPA 1 \ NFPA 101 refer to ANSI 17.1 , ANSI 17.1 refers to NFPA 72

Thanks for any help.
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
I am looking for an exception for NOT having a elevator recall on an elevator. We do not believe the recall is nessarry, but cannot find a code article for an exception. (though we were told we do not need a recall, by the manufacture) Here is the situation: New construction, elevator travels less than 25', stops at 2 floors, no smoke/fire alarm in the building, the car opens to the SAME lobby/ air space, office building with no visitors.

Hint: NFPA 1 \ NFPA 101 refer to ANSI 17.1 , ANSI 17.1 refers to NFPA 72

Thanks for any help.
Subjective to your fire marshal"s opinion.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I am looking for an exception for NOT having a elevator recall on an elevator. We do not believe the recall is nessarry, but cannot find a code article for an exception. (though we were told we do not need a recall, by the manufacture) Here is the situation: New construction, elevator travels less than 25', stops at 2 floors, no smoke/fire alarm in the building, the car opens to the SAME lobby/ air space, office building with no visitors.

Hint: NFPA 1 \ NFPA 101 refer to ANSI 17.1 , ANSI 17.1 refers to NFPA 72

Thanks for any help.
The manufacturer will tell you what you want to hear. I have the 1996 edition of 17.1. Rule 211.3 makes it very clear that elevator recall is required for ALL automatic elevators. And I believe the 25' rule was for existing elevators only. Current edition allows an exemption for an electric lift travelling less than 80 inches and the hoistway doesn't penetrate the floor. You will need to install an elevator recall panel, subject as noted above to the AHJ's requirements. This can be an ordinary fire alarm panel whose only funtion is elevator recall.
 
The manufacturer will tell you what you want to hear. I have the 1996 edition of 17.1. Rule 211.3 makes it very clear that elevator recall is required for ALL automatic elevators. And I believe the 25' rule was for existing elevators only. Current edition allows an exemption for an electric lift travelling less than 80 inches and the hoistway doesn't penetrate the floor. You will need to install an elevator recall panel, subject as noted above to the AHJ's requirements. This can be an ordinary fire alarm panel whose only funtion is elevator recall.
I am assuming 211.3 is a typo. 2.11.3 is closing of hoistway doors. Can you give me more clarification on the rule please?
 

Gregg Harris

Senior Member
Location
Virginia
2009 IBC

403.6 Elevators.
Elevator installation and operation in high-rise buildings shall comply with Chapter 30 and Sections 403.6.1 and 403.6.2. 403.6.1 Fire service access elevator. In buildings with an occupied floor more than 120 feet (36 576 mm) above the lowest level of fire department vehicle access, a minimum of one fire service access elevator shall be provided in accordance with Section 3007. 403.6.2 Occupant evacuation elevators. Where installed in accordance with Section 3008, passenger elevators for general public use shall be permitted to be used for occupant self-evacuation.

3008.14.1 Elevator recall. The fire command center or an alternative location approved by the fire department shall be provided with the means to manually initiate a Phase I Emergency Recall of the occupant evacuation elevators in accordance with ASME A17.1/CSA B44.
 
Elevator recall is required.

Elevator recall is required.

The NEC Sectio 620 only identifies what is required for a safe operation of the elevator, as well as what equipment and protection is necessary to achieve that. It does not provide control information, which is what an elevator recall is. The emergency recall is defined in the Elevator Code (ANSI 17.1) as far as the operation of the elevator during emergency conditions and the controls necessary as part of Sectio2.27.3 for a Phase 1 recall. The International Building Code identifies when there should be elevators, how many of them and when they should be on emergency power (Sections 1007 and Chapter 30). The Fire Alarm Code (NFPA 72) provides the reqirements for the automatic control of the elevators by fire alarm or fire contril devices.
As a result of the World Trade Center disaster, there are now additonal requirements for the elevators operation in the IBC and NFPA 72 for the elevator operation and power to make it accessable as required by the Accessibility Code.(ANSI 117.1). There is also a designation as an "Occupant Evacuation Elevator", which has an entirely different set of requirements in the IBC and NFPA 72, generally found in high rise buildings.
 

gadfly56

Senior Member
Location
New Jersey
Occupation
Professional Engineer, Fire & Life Safety
I am assuming 211.3 is a typo. 2.11.3 is closing of hoistway doors. Can you give me more clarification on the rule please?
Not a typo; I told you it was an old edition!:D My company is too cheap to spring for a current copy.
 
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