energized white conductor in the panel?

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zazmat

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We recently purchased a house and during an inspection I noticed that the 40A breaker at the main going to Air Conditioner unit had black and white #8 energized wires going to it. The seller had an electrician fix this error. In doing so the electrician replaced the breaker to a 30A and taped the white wire black.

I haven't checked AC unit's amp requirements yet so I can't dispute downsizing the breaker, because #8 and 40A don't go together and either the cable had to up in size or the breaker had to be downsized.

My main concern is taping of the white wire. I didn't think it was according to code, but wanted to check with you all.

Thanks
 
See 200.7 for where it is allowed.

(C) Circuits of 50 Volts or More. The use of insulation that is white or gray or that has three continuous white stripes for other than a grounded conductor for circuits of 50 volts or more shall be permitted only as in (1) through (3).

(1) If part of a cable assembly and where the insulation is permanently reidentified to indicate its use as an ungrounded conductor, by painting or other effective means at its termination, and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible. Identification shall encircle the insulation and shall be a color other than white, gray, or green.

(2) Where a cable assembly contains an insulated conductor for single-pole, 3-way or 4-way switch loops and the conductor with white or gray insulation or a marking of three continuous white stripes is used for the supply to the switch but not as a return conductor from the switch to the switched outlet. In these applications, the conductor with white or gray insulation or with three continuous white stripes shall be permanently reidentified to indicate its use by painting or other effective means at its terminations and at each location where the conductor is visible and accessible.

(3) Where a flexible cord, having one conductor identified by a white or gray outer finish or three continuous white stripes or by any other means permitted by 400.22, is used for connecting an appliance or equipment permitted by 400.7. This shall apply to flexible cords connected to outlets whether or not the outlet is supplied by a circuit that has a grounded conductor.
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Roger
 
zazmat said:
We recently purchased a house and during an inspection I noticed that the 40A breaker at the main going to Air Conditioner unit had black and white #8 energized wires going to it. The seller had an electrician fix this error. In doing so the electrician replaced the breaker to a 30A and taped the white wire black.

I haven't checked AC unit's amp requirements yet so I can't dispute downsizing the breaker, because #8 and 40A don't go together and either the cable had to up in size or the breaker had to be downsized.

My main concern is taping of the white wire. I didn't think it was according to code, but wanted to check with you all.

Thanks
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What makes you think 40 amp breaker and number 8 is wrong ? 310.16
Was this a cable ? If so its very legal to reidentify.
 
Not uncommon for me to find units with breakers that are larger than the nameplate allows especially with the higher ser units. Check the nameplate on the unit to see that the breaker is not too small. The lower amperage breaker is not a problem with #8 at all. Taping a white wire with tape or marking it with a marker to indicate it is hot is what should be done. I'd tend to believe the electrician did what was necessary "if" the nameplate is agreeing with the new breaker.
 
sparkway I appreciate your quick response. I am at work and plan on checking the nameplate rating once I get home. However my main concern is not the size but the color of it. We have used our AC unit quite a bit and it still hasn't tripped :)

Either the article published in EC&M is wrong or the Electrician. I am trying to decide who is right. I tend to think Mike Holt knows his stuff :)
 
Just trying to help a guy out...thanks. That picture is showing individual wires in a conduit rather than romex. I guess I'm not to worried about safety since the unit is working fine...its the life of the compressor I'm wondering about. Low amperage could be an issue over time. You're right, the people here are great to help and they are pro's for sure. Nice site...Thanks Mike and Company!!;)
 
zazmat said:
Either the article published in EC&M is wrong or the Electrician. I am trying to decide who is right. I tend to think Mike Holt knows his stuff :)
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The article is correct and so is the code section I provided to you.

Notice the wording "If part of a cable assembly", even though it is permitted to re-identify a white conductor in a cable assembly, this permission is not allowed in a raceway. An inspector could reject using tape for this though and require something permanent.

BTW, the requirement to re-identify the white conductor is relatively new, when the house was built it may not have been in the NEC

Roger
 
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zazmat said:
sparkway I appreciate your quick response. I am at work and plan on checking the nameplate rating once I get home. However my main concern is not the size but the color of it. We have used our AC unit quite a bit and it still hasn't tripped :)

Either the article published in EC&M is wrong or the Electrician. I am trying to decide who is right. I tend to think Mike Holt knows his stuff :)
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You have not told us if this is 10-2 romex or if its thhn wire. That makes a total differance as to if the white was allowed to be taped. Your not in any danger over the color of wire. Electric is not racist. Now if this turns out to be thhn and not romex then it is a violation but i sure would not lose sleep over it or change it. When you check name plate see what the min. circuit amps are and the min. / max. breaker is. If the 30 falls into the range then its fine. If the wire is thhn then breaker could be 35 and being 35 is not a standard size could be uped to a 40.
We must start with facts, so first is it romex ?
 
I believe picture speaks thousand words.

Please notice the taped wire leaving 30A breaker on the top right corner.

roger the house was built in 2006.

I appreciate the responses from all of you.

Keep em coming :)
 
No offense, I'd fire myself for that panel install job... no workmanship and several "not goods" are in that mess especially at the bottom right corner. Wow... the neutral isn't marked and is bonded (which may have been fine if this is the first means of disconnect) and why the sep ground bar if this is the main panel---terminal spaces are open on the neuty bar. Just my opinion. The wire on the 30 amp does appear to be romex so taping it is fine here IMO.
 
zazmat said:
I believe picture speaks thousand words.

Please notice the taped wire leaving 30A breaker on the top right corner.

roger the house was built in 2006.

I appreciate the responses from all of you.

Keep em coming :)
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Good news is it is romex so he can tape it. Why did he not put white tape on neutral while there. The job looks like a 10 year old did it. I always have said use your best man on the panel. The inspector sees garbage there and he will assume the rest matches.
 
Jim, I asked myself the same question. I even wondered further as to why was a black neutral installed in the first place. This is a job done by the builder.

sparkway, I agree with you, this is a terrible job. The neutral wasn't bonded initially and it was caught during inspection.

Here's what the panel looked like before inspection.
 
For air conditioning and motors, the overcurrent size and conductor size do not have to match as in typical branch circuit wiring.
240.4(D) says except as allowed in 240.4(E) or (G). You have to follow E and G to the rules in Art 430 and 440.
 
zazmat said:
Jim, I asked myself the same question. I even wondered further as to why was a black neutral installed in the first place. This is a job done by the builder.

sparkway, I agree with you, this is a terrible job. The neutral wasn't bonded initially and it was caught during inspection.

Here's what the panel looked like before inspection.
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The neutral will almost always be black because of size #4 and larger can be taped .
If you lived near me i would take an hour an fix that mess for free. Its an embarrasment to any real electrician. Are you in one of the states that do not have licensed electrical contractors ? What else in that house is of the quality ? Really feel bad that you got such a messy job. This is one time i will admit a HI was needed. He should have took picture of this mess and gave it to you . Anyone that does work like this needs to go back to flipping burgers. Send us a picture of the dog tag on that AC and while your at it lets see the disconnect.
 
Tom,

I am not sure what you mean by that. Could you elaborate? I don't see where it would be wise to use a conductor rated less than the overcurrent protective device? I can see where wire used could be greater in size, sometimes even to account for voltage drop.
 
Jim,

Thanks for the offer, but I live in Lone Star State of Texas :) I wouldn't want you to do it for free. If I knew of a person in Houston who can do a good job I would even pay to get this mess fixed. I called the city to find out if the inspection was ever done and I am told that it was, and approved!!! However the person who did the inspection is no longer with the city. They suggested that I call back after an hour and speak with the building official. I will try to get the pictures of the AC disconnect and the nameplate later this evening :) Do you think I should go back to the builder and hand them some nice pics of their work? they might come in handy for marketing their work :)

I appreciate the responses from all of you.
 
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