Enforcing NEC at a University?

Status
Not open for further replies.
N

nietzj

Senior Member
Location
St. Paul, Minnesota
Occupation
Electrician
If a University offers an electrical engineering class that requires students to perform various electrical tasks how would you treat that as an AHJ? Obviously they are unlicensed and there is no path to pull a permit since they are not a contractor. The solutions I can think of are weak at best:
1, Hire electrical contractor to perform all electrical tasks.
2, Assign a licensed electrician who is a University employee to do the work under the electrical master if there is one.

What do you do?
 
nietzj said:
If a University offers an electrical engineering class that requires students to perform various electrical tasks how would you treat that as an AHJ? Obviously they are unlicensed and there is no path to pull a permit since they are not a contractor. The solutions I can think of are weak at best:
1, Hire electrical contractor to perform all electrical tasks.
2, Assign a licensed electrician who is a University employee to do the work under the electrical master if there is one.

What do you do?
Click to expand...
It's the university is a governmental entity it is probably exempt from the NEC and all other building codes.
 
nietzj said:
If a University offers an electrical engineering class that requires students to perform various electrical tasks how would you treat that as an AHJ? Obviously they are unlicensed and there is no path to pull a permit since they are not a contractor. The solutions I can think of are weak at best:
1, Hire electrical contractor to perform all electrical tasks.
2, Assign a licensed electrician who is a University employee to do the work under the electrical master if there is one.

What do you do?
Click to expand...
I could see that handled the same as other fields, via an internship. Colleges enter into an arrangement with area providers that allow the student to engage in the supervised instructional hands on within the field of work. College would also be in contact and elicit the support of the local AHJ(s) informing of the intent of the college, and mechanism of supervision of the work perfomance. That would also indicate what the colleges required level of participation and skill level that they are looking to achieve for the engineering students. Most likely not reaching or expected to reach a master or journeyman electrician level for the engineering degree.
This question seems comes from points raised in another thread here? It would seem to be a logical solution for designs being made that seem to not have any idea of the physical space constraints and "how" a system is installed.
 
nietzj said:
If a University offers an electrical engineering class that requires students to perform various electrical tasks how would you treat that as an AHJ? Obviously they are unlicensed and there is no path to pull a permit since they are not a contractor. The solutions I can think of are weak at best:
1, Hire electrical contractor to perform all electrical tasks.
2, Assign a licensed electrician who is a University employee to do the work under the electrical master if there is one.

What do you do?
Click to expand...
IMHO... Since they are not a contractor, they do not hold the insurance needed to perform their own work. If this is just a simple in class project within the classroom, I would say let the engineers go. I think most engineers could use a little lesson in field applications. But, if the future engineers are building their next standing structure on campus that could potentially pose a problem. That is just my $.02. :)
 
Fred B said:
I could see that handled the same as other fields, via an internship. Colleges enter into an arrangement with area providers that allow the student to engage in the supervised instructional hands on within the field of work. College would also be in contact and elicit the support of the local AHJ(s) informing of the intent of the college, and mechanism of supervision of the work perfomance. That would also indicate what the colleges required level of participation and skill level that they are looking to achieve for the engineering students. Most likely not reaching or expected to reach a master or journeyman electrician level for the engineering degree.
This question seems comes from points raised in another thread here? It would seem to be a logical solution for designs being made that seem to not have any idea of the physical space constraints and "how" a system is installed.
Click to expand...
This particular incident arose when the AHJ was onsite inspecting the premisis wiring that supported this equipment. The stuff that was wired later by students is the problem. The even bigger issue is there are unsafe conditions due to the student wiring.
 
What do you do?

Our State universities are exempt from local inspections but require State inspections.
 
Asking if the NEC needs to be enforced or an electrical licensing law needs to be enforced are two different questions.
I'd say the NEC applies to all universities, licensing laws might have an exemption for students learning a trade.
 
nietzj said:
This particular incident arose when the AHJ was onsite inspecting the premisis wiring that supported this equipment. The stuff that was wired later by students is the problem. The even bigger issue is there are unsafe conditions due to the student wiring.
Click to expand...
What are these unsafe conditions?
 
petersonra said:
But it might be enforced because they decide to enforce it not because some locality requires it.
Click to expand...
Some Federal buildings are exempt from local jurisdiction, it's a long and complicated story, probably best for a different thread. In this case the local AHJ has jurisdiction for this facility.
 
tortuga said:
Asking if the NEC needs to be enforced or an electrical licensing law needs to be enforced are two different questions.
I'd say the NEC applies to all universities, licensing laws might have an exemption for students learning a trade.
Click to expand...
I totally agree, but I have never seen that language anywhere.
 
What state are you in? In my state universities can pull whats a called 'master permits' and get an annual electrical inspection. They usually have a electrician or two on staff.
 
nietzj said:
This particular incident arose when the AHJ was onsite inspecting the premisis wiring that supported this equipment. The stuff that was wired later by students is the problem. The even bigger issue is there are unsafe conditions due to the student wiring.
Click to expand...
Don't know, as here public schools and colleges all fall under the auspices of the State Department of Education, and are exempt from the local AHJ; the Dept.of Ed. "Is" the AHJ for the facility internal electrical installations. That said I'm aware of MANY situations within a school system that if it was any other building that would be "red tagged", but in the school was allowed, either because of it being allowed or a lack of oversight by the AHJ (Dept. Of Ed.).
 
nietzj said:
This particular incident arose when the AHJ was onsite inspecting the premisis wiring that supported this equipment. The stuff that was wired later by students is the problem. The even bigger issue is there are unsafe conditions due to the student wiring.
Click to expand...
Sounds like the students were working in some type of lab environment that was external to the building/premises wiring.
 
jim dungar said:
Sounds like the students were working in some type of lab environment that was external to the building/premises wiring.
Click to expand...
Sort of, a licensed electriction installed the receptacles 208v-3 phase. The students took it from there, this work was done inside of a lab in a University building, so the question is where do inspections end? I really don't know how to treat this.
 
nietzj said:
Unsafe conditions include:
*spliced wires laying on the floor-no enclosure
*open unguarded terminal blocks-line voltage
*unlisted/labled equipment
Click to expand...
The code does not require all equipment to be listed.

I don't know what you mean by unguarded terminal blocks. Most terminal blocks these days are more or less finger safe and are inherently guarded because of that. It's probably true they should be in a box rather than bolted to the wall but that's a different issue.

As far as spliced wires laying on the floor, I suppose that's a trip hazard, but it doesn't seem to me to be any worse than unspliced wires laying on the floor. Presumably at some point the wires laying on the floor and get moved so they're not on the floor anymore.

If there are actual real issues of safety, perhaps you should approach the professor of this class in a very respectful manner and point them out. It seems to me you just want to complain about some unlicensed guy doing electrical work.
 
I agree, they should still follow the NEC, I think its a misconception that the NEC ends at the receptacle.
I have never seen listing of equipment equipment required or enforced in that setting.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top