Engineer VS. AHJ

[Sierrasparky]

Just how many times does someone have to tell you that "game" is not a board that two kids sit at? You are frustrating. Have you ever heard of the movie Hunger Games? Do you know that people lose more money on a single hand in a poker GAME than you are talking about here? It is a word and it has meaning you just refuse to accept. Here is the applicable part of teh definition from Merriam Webster:

• a : a procedure or strategy for gaining an end : tactic
• 3a (1) : a physical or mental competition conducted according to rules with the participants in direct opposition to each other

Sorry, I still feel this is no place for a game. That is my feeling. I /we are here to provide a service. When you go out to dinner to you bargain with the server as to price or quantity. Do you strategize as to how to get two scoops of ice cream when one is all that is served. Do you ......

One wonders why you do what you do. It sounds like you hate it. Perhaps a change in your perspective where you realize it is your skill against theirs. Or choosing better teams to work with. While I live in Florida now, my training was 15 years working in the San Francisco Bay Area. I am quite familiar with the challenges you have in California.

Sierrasparky
it sounds like you hate what you do and it is making you miserable
I feel for you
you can't change others but you can change your outlook
not everyone is a devious sob out to screw you, imho those types are rare
I read a book a long time ago (20 years in a blink fbthe eye lol) it improved my outlook
the art of happiness

Actually I like what I do, I hate what the industry in CA has become. As far as devious customers, I have to tell you the vast majority of potential clients are devious as it gets. They lie lie and lie. and when you catch them on the lie they lie cheat and steal. These folks are not out to screw me personally this is the way they are. In the end the final product suffers.

Provide 75% plans to bid because your client is cheap then you get 75% or less competent bids. You get bids that are all over the place, you get apples when you want oranges. You get what you pay for.

Back in the day I did work at some LADWP buildings. The architects drew the most detailed plans. I was great to work for them as you always new what was expected. Everyone was on the same page.

I have plans right now I am bidding ( or not) that are so incomplete it is not funny. No specs as to light fixtures other than CFL downlight or strip light. I know this client does not want crap. but you can't bid it because you have no Idea what the other contractors are bidding. If you bid for what the customer wants in the back of his mind you wont win as the other guy will bid basic grade. The customer I know has the ability to have complete plans and is doing this on purpose.

That is my feeling and sticking to it.

Thanks for the criticism ...

 

[Strathead]

Sierrasparky
it sounds like you hate what you do and it is making you miserable
I feel for you
you can't change others but you can change your outlook
not everyone is a devious sob out to screw you, imho those types are rare
I read a book a long time ago (20 years in a blink fbthe eye lol) it improved my outlook
the art of happiness

:thumbsup:

 

[augie47]

We are instructed to make sure "the job meets Code".
Possibly due to the fact that often there are errors on the stamped drawings we are provided.
When I question that recently, I was advised our State Office does not presently have staff to adequately review electrical and the drawing simply gutted stamped as part of the process.

 

[ron]

I was advised our State Office does not presently have staff to adequately review electrical and the drawing simply gutted stamped as part of the process.

Interestingly, electrical drawings are not reviewed by the building dept or anyone for that matter for all jobs in NYC, except the designer and electrical contractor.

I recently did a project in which the building dept (not NYC) had the elec contractor hire an underwriter directly to review and inspect the work. The electrical contractor did some interviews before hiring one and wouldn't you know it that the inspector didn't bust his chops even once on a multi-million dollar electrical install.

I think I'm good, but I like it when others look at my work before it is implemented.

 

[flatlander]

We are instructed to make sure "the job meets Code".
Possibly due to the fact that often there are errors on the stamped drawings we are provided.
When I question that recently, I was advised our State Office does not presently have staff to adequately review electrical and the drawing simply gutted stamped as part of the process.

Is there plan review?

 

[Sierrasparky]

Sorry, I still feel this is no place for a game. That is my feeling. I /we are here to provide a service. When you go out to dinner to you bargain with the server as to price or quantity. Do you strategize as to how to get two scoops of ice cream when one is all that is served. Do you ......


Strathead - you never answered my question.

 

[augie47]

Is there plan review?

officially, yes.. reviewed and stamped... and totally non-compliant

 

[ggunn]

Seriously, are you guys actually arguing over whether business decisions can be called a game?

 

[Strathead]

Sorry, I still feel this is no place for a game. That is my feeling. I /we are here to provide a service. When you go out to dinner to you bargain with the server as to price or quantity. Do you strategize as to how to get two scoops of ice cream when one is all that is served. Do you ......


Strathead - you never answered my question.

I sent you the Merriam Webster definition of a game as it applies to my usage. If you don't choose to accept that I can't really answer you. Buying and ice cream isn't a viable comparison. The buying has already been done. Every single RFI I write, every change request, every word I speak in a meeting, I try to consider the strategy of, once I have entered in to a contract. If that answers your question at all. Otherwise, it is time to agree to disagree.

 

[Sierrasparky]

I sent you the Merriam Webster definition of a game as it applies to my usage. If you don't choose to accept that I can't really answer you. Buying and ice cream isn't a viable comparison. The buying has already been done. Every single RFI I write, every change request, every word I speak in a meeting, I try to consider the strategy of, once I have entered in to a contract. If that answers your question at all. Otherwise, it is time to agree to disagree.

I say so what about the websters definition.
Food service is a perfect example , it's just that you don't like the extreme comparison.

I still feel that this gamesmanship is and has gotten way out of hand.
The Federal government understands that case law. However local agencies and private projects do not. Contracting firms should not have to have full legal staff to intimidate others. I hear all too often that firms wind up making up loses through litigation. Nobody wins but the lawyers.