EU/UK Outlets

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flengineer

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Does anyone have experience installing EU/UK outlets in the US? This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones. Since these devices are all rated for 120-1220V, 50-60 Hz, it seems like you should be able to provide the EU/UK outlets and wire them at 120V 60Hz without any issues. I am trying to avoid providing a separate transformer, panel and distribution system just for these outlets. Will wiring them this way violate their UL listing?

Can these outlets be installed in a standard poke thru?
 
The first thing to realize is that the "sockets" in the UK are different from the ones on the majority of the continent. Do you plan on having a mix of each type? If not then an adapter would be needed anyway.

I don't recall if the sockets from Europe are rated for 60Hz so that may be a listing problem, though I don't see any listing issue with feeding them with a lower voltage. However I would probably label them as being 120V just in case someone has a particular charger that won't function w/ 120V (I'm not aware of any but who knows....)

The size and shape of these is completely different from what we use in the US so you will have to get back boxes specifically designed for them. If you're talking poke though's I have to imagine that you can find something from Legrand- you may have to look for a European catalog though.

Typical UK: Uk_13a_double_socket.jpg

Typical EU: 220px-French-power-socket.jpg

Certainly this isn't an exhaustive review of these but hopefully can get you moving in the right direction...
 
As already stated by others, our UK sockets are not the same as the ones used by our European cousins.

Our normal supply is 230V 50Hz. From the point of view of a Brit : If I find a BS1363 UK socket, I expect to find 230V 50Hz on it (Just like you US guys wouldn't expect to find 230V 50Hz on a US style receptacle if you came across it). I accept the point that a lower voltage on an outlet is safer than a higher one but wouldn't the Customers of this hospitality facility expect the power provided by the outlet to be what is familiar to the 'normal' user of that style of outlet?

Id be very surprised if the UK socket even has a UL listing. The equivalent body here is BSI (British Standards Institute) but I don't think there is any scheme whereby UL will automatically recognise a BS mark or vice-versa.

Its true that a lot of modern equipment which is based on SMPS don't really care what the supply voltage or frequency is but, something like, say a hair dryer probably would.

The outlets across Europe are not standard. There is an outlet called the schuko which is a combination of the French & Germany styles (and accepts both plugs) but you wont find that here in the UK.

If the Client really does want to provide the flexibility of accepting plugs from all over Europe then it think you'll have to consider providing several different outlets to achieve this.

Adrian
 
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Adrian et al., do you happen to know whether the US outlets in hotels in Europe supply 120V @ 60 Hz or are they supplying 120V @ 50Hz? I don't recall seeing any info on them.
 
flengineer said:
Does anyone have experience installing EU/UK outlets in the US? This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones. Since these devices are all rated for 120-1220V, 50-60 Hz, it seems like you should be able to provide the EU/UK outlets and wire them at 120V 60Hz without any issues. I am trying to avoid providing a separate transformer, panel and distribution system just for these outlets. Will wiring them this way violate their UL listing?

Can these outlets be installed in a standard poke thru?
Click to expand...
I travel and have travelled quite a bit to different countries including USA - my wife's from GA - and take my laptop wherever I go. Not a problem.
If what you want is just to charge laptops, phones and other mobile devices your existing 120V 60Hz should be just fine. Most chargers are typically rated for 100-240V abd 50/60Hz.
I have a few adaptors that allow me to plug into any outlet I've come across. But even without that you can get a local mains lead that with a standard connector that plugs into the PC power supply.

My iphone and my Kindle can both be charged from a USB port.

I certainly wouldn't go to the trouble/expense of installing a dedicated transformer/distribution system
 
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PetrosA said:
Adrian et al., do you happen to know whether the US outlets in hotels in Europe supply 120V @ 60 Hz or are they supplying 120V @ 50Hz? I don't recall seeing any info on them.
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I don't know about Adrian but I haven't come across US outlets in hotels in Europe.
 
flengineer said:
Does anyone have experience installing EU/UK outlets in the US? This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones. Since these devices are all rated for 120-1220V, 50-60 Hz, it seems like you should be able to provide the EU/UK outlets and wire them at 120V 60Hz without any issues. I am trying to avoid providing a separate transformer, panel and distribution system just for these outlets.
Click to expand...


The cheapest and safest way I can think of is to provide a power converter box ( transformer). Get one of the bigger one's and no one will walk off with it.

I have seen them that just plug into the 120V outlet and provide 230V on british standard outlets. I think it's still 60 HZ. It's simple to get an adapter from British to EU.

They may even sell a transformer with both British and EU outlets.
 
growler said:
The cheapest and safest way I can think of is to provide a power converter box ( transformer). Get one of the bigger one's and no one will walk off with it.

I have seen them that just plug into the 120V outlet and provide 230V on british standard outlets. I think it's still 60 HZ. It's simple to get an adapter from British to EU.

They may even sell a transformer with both British and EU outlets.
Click to expand...

Like I posted above, I've never needed a transformer.
It would cheaper and simpler just to provide mains leads.
 
The biggest problem I see is the listing issues that will come to play. You should opt for some type of listed converter or attachment.


Roger
 
flengineer said:
Does anyone have experience installing EU/UK outlets in the US? This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones.
Click to expand...

Besoeker said:
Like I posted above, I've never needed a transformer.
It would cheaper and simpler just to provide mains leads.
Click to expand...


For laptops and phones that would work well enough.

But if you want to provide a UK/EU outlet then a converter would be necessary. That makes it an appliance and not part of building wiring.
 
growler said:
For laptops and phones that would work well enough.

But if you want to provide a UK/EU outlet then a converter would be necessary. That makes it an appliance and not part of building wiring.
Click to expand...
From the OP:

This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones
Click to expand...
 
Besoeker said:
Like I posted above, I've never needed a transformer.
It would cheaper and simpler just to provide mains leads.
Click to expand...


Unless these are signed for they will leave with the user. You have to consider the time spent keeping track of these leads over a period of time.

One of the larger power converters could be bolted down like other appliances ( TV's) and wouldn't require any labor to keep track of.

These are just opinions, the OP and the owner just need to know what options they have and they can make a decision base on that.
 
growler said:
Unless these are signed for they will leave with the user.
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Is that such a big deal?
It's a hospitality event - delegates with probably be given promotional gifts anyway.
And how much does a mains lead cost anyway? A couple of bucks? Five tops maybe? Compare that with the costs of flights from Europe, accommodation, food, car hire,........
Peanuts.
 
flengineer said:
Does anyone have experience installing EU/UK outlets in the US? This is a hospitality setting and the outlets will be used in a business center for charging laptops and phones. Since these devices are all rated for 120-1220V, 50-60 Hz, it seems like you should be able to provide the EU/UK outlets and wire them at 120V 60Hz without any issues. I am trying to avoid providing a separate transformer, panel and distribution system just for these outlets. Will wiring them this way violate their UL listing?

Can these outlets be installed in a standard poke thru?
Click to expand...

This company specifically makes products for that purpose. They make different non US designs that can be adapted to US style boxes. They also offer Euro style boxes if need be:

http://www.internationalconfig.com/
 
Besoeker said:
I use this type of mains lead in some places:

to
View attachment 10368
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When I was in Germany in 2011, made me nervous as hell to plug my NEMA plug into the adaptor for the first time so I could charge my laptop even though knew the power supply was rated for it,that came from a jobsite where a 5-15 was used for a 240V tablesaw & someone plugged a 400W floodlight into it frying the 120V ballast. That happened almost 30 years ago & still get cranky when I see devices used on something other then the voltage it was rated for.
 
norcal said:
When I was in Germany in 2011, made me nervous as hell to plug my NEMA plug into the adaptor for the first time so I could charge my laptop even though knew the power supply was rated for it,that came from a jobsite where a 5-15 was used for a 240V tablesaw & someone plugged a 400W floodlight into it frying the 120V ballast. That happened almost 30 years ago & still get cranky when I see devices used on something other then the voltage it was rated for.
Click to expand...

Roughly since the beginning of time nearly all laptop computers and a fair portion of desktop and tower PC have power supplies designed for 100-250V 50-60Hz -- without human intervention. It was and is so much easier to make ONE power supply for the entire marketplace than to make sure you build and ship the right power supply unique to each marketplace.

Almost all computer power supplies after year 2 of the PC era were and are solid state that rectify the input power, take the resulting "DC" and generate a high frequency AC which is then transformed using tiny transformers, rectified and regulated to the proper DC for the device. So much lighter than a 50/60Hz power transformer heading the power supply.

That is why computer power supplies generally have an IEC male connector for power input. All you have to do is change the cord for the country specific receptacles. We used to package the keyboard and power cord in one box and then just ship the country-specific items and the computer/power supply as two "components" in a single box.

A rare few devices requires flipping a switch -- almost always a red one marked 125/250V.
 
Installing a variety of different receptacles is a nice idea in theory.

It would be far more practical to just have adaptors available for sale.

I bet most people traveling carry what they need for their gear anyway. I know if I were heading for Europe I would make sure I had the necessary adaptors for my needs.
 
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