EU/UK Outlets

[SMHarman]

Adrian et al., do you happen to know whether the US outlets in hotels in Europe supply 120V @ 60 Hz or are they supplying 120V @ 50Hz? I don't recall seeing any info on them.

It's a lot of expensive work to change the frequency of the distributed electricity. Far harder than step up or down of the voltage.

That's a lot of words to say it would be 50Hz. Only really a problem for things with mains powered motors. Hairdryer and record turntables spring to mind.

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[mbrooke]

It's a lot of expensive work to change the frequency of the distributed electricity. Far harder than step up or down of the voltage.

That's a lot of words to say it would be 50Hz. Only really a problem for things with mains powered motors. Hairdryer and record turntables spring to mind.

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Most hair dryers have a rectified low voltage permanent magnet DC motor, so it wouldn't matter to them. Even ones that have a line rated motor those are universal.


I agree though, turning 60hz to 50hz takes effort and $$. However IMO they should t least be the same voltage. If you install Schuko plugs or UK plugs they should at least be 230 volts with a label "60hz". Any device that does need the 230 volt potential will be satisfied.


I know of some countries where hotels near airports will have American NEMA 5-15rs with 100 volts on them. Only down side being its at 50hz; but a rechargeable shaver, curling iron or hair dryer sure is content with that.

 

[Besoeker]

When I was in Germany in 2011, made me nervous as hell to plug my NEMA plug into the adaptor for the first time so I could charge my laptop even though knew the power supply was rated for it,that came from a jobsite where a 5-15 was used for a 240V tablesaw & someone plugged a 400W floodlight into it frying the 120V ballast. That happened almost 30 years ago & still get cranky when I see devices used on something other then the voltage it was rated for.

I would too. But power supplies for laptops and phone chargers are rated typically for 100-240V so you wouldn't be using voltages they are not rated for.

 

[norcal]

I would too. But power supplies for laptops and phone chargers are rated typically for 100-240V so you wouldn't be using voltages they are not rated for.

It was just inserting a 15A 125V rated plug into a receptacle with a higher voltage that made me nervous even though I knew it was not going to be a problem.

 

[Netpog]

I'm with norcal. In a London hotel room, I plugged in my phone charger, a cheapo Best Buy house brand, stamped for 110-240v, 50-60 Hz. About 2 a.m. the thing detonated, filling the room with that familiar toasted-electronics aroma.

Especially noisy, since it was plugged in behind a metal waste basket, in a euro-style miniaturized room.

So, yeah, I'm not happy trusting the markings, at least when it's a made-for-USA low-end item.

 

[Besoeker]

I'm with norcal. In a London hotel room, I plugged in my phone charger, a cheapo Best Buy house brand, stamped for 110-240v, 50-60 Hz. About 2 a.m. the thing detonated, filling the room with that familiar toasted-electronics aroma.

Especially noisy, since it was plugged in behind a metal waste basket, in a euro-style miniaturized room.

So, yeah, I'm not happy trusting the markings, at least when it's a made-for-USA low-end item.

I think most of them come out of China and are sold worldwide.
Anyway, how did you get your charger to plug into a UK 3-pin socket?

 

[mbrooke]

I'm with norcal. In a London hotel room, I plugged in my phone charger, a cheapo Best Buy house brand, stamped for 110-240v, 50-60 Hz. About 2 a.m. the thing detonated, filling the room with that familiar toasted-electronics aroma.

Especially noisy, since it was plugged in behind a metal waste basket, in a euro-style miniaturized room.

So, yeah, I'm not happy trusting the markings, at least when it's a made-for-USA low-end item.

Sounds like the rectifier bridge might have gone. At 230 volts when one diode fails they all follow suit.

 

[Netpog]

I think most of them come out of China and are sold worldwide.

In which case, I'm wrong about the "made-for-USA" detail. I'll stick with my aversion to "low-end".

I'd be especially wary with items that are being used outside their usual context, such as traveling to Europe with a bottom-end "110 to 240v" gadget that's being sold into the land of 120v.

Anyway, how did you get your charger to plug into a UK 3-pin socket?

With a generic plug-adapter, which I'm still using (the smoke stains give it character). And of course I continue to read the labels/imprints on anything I plug into it. Not that it helped, that time.

After mine blew up, I walked over the Virgin store to buy a replacement. The guy at the counter was sufficiently entertained by my story (and the wreckage that I showed him) that he gave me a Nokia-brand UK charger from their extra-parts heap.

 

[Netpog]

Sounds like the rectifier bridge might have gone. At 230 volts when one diode fails they all follow suit. [emphasis added]

Interesting! So are the folks in Europe better-accustomed to consumer electronics that go "bang" in the night?

 

[Besoeker]

Interesting! So are the folks in Europe better-accustomed to consumer electronics that go "bang" in the night?

Well, I can't speak for all of course. But my experience..

Like most households we have a whole bunch electronic gizmos. Maybe more than most given that we are just a couple, children grown and flown, grand children as visitors from time to time.
I have four laptops, three in regular use, a Nokia mobile phone, a BlackBerry, an iPhone, a printer, and I'm on my third Kindle. Mrs B has a laptop, desktop, a printer/scanner/fax, a bunch of peripherals, a smart phone, another Kindle,...
Then there are a couple of televisions, cable boxes, DVD player, numerous LED and CFL lights. And a few battery operated power tools.

Nothing has gone bang. As in blown up.
And I have no reports from relatives, friends, and colleagues of anything going bang.

Sure, there have been a few failures
A little tale.
A while back, at least a year ago, maybe closer to two, my son invited us for Sunday lunch.
"Dad, would you like to have Sunday lunch with us?"
"OK. When did you have in mind?"
"How about this Sunday?"
"I'll check with the missus."
OK. All arranged.
"By the way, do you know anything about dimmers?"
Cheeky blighter knows perfectly well what I do for a living.
"I might."

"We have a problem with......"

So we went. I fixed the problem.
And we had a very nice lunch. Irish stew made with fillet steak.

 

[Netpog]

[...]
"By the way, do you know anything about dimmers?"
Cheeky blighter knows perfectly well what I do for a living.
"I might."

"We have a problem with......"

So we went. I fixed the problem.
And we had a very nice lunch. Irish stew made with fillet steak.

Cheeky of him, yes, but I'd find that a very attractive trade-off for time with one of my incredibly-distracted sons. Forgive me, but I'd commit acts of plumbing, to spend the incremental meal with him.

That sounded pathetic, didn't it? Well, I'd happily replace a device, I know that much.

 

[Jon456]

A little tale.
A while back, at least a year ago, maybe closer to two, my son invited us for Sunday lunch.
"Dad, would you like to have Sunday lunch with us?"
"OK. When did you have in mind?"
"How about this Sunday?"
"I'll check with the missus."
OK. All arranged.
"By the way, do you know anything about dimmers?"
Cheeky blighter knows perfectly well what I do for a living.
"I might."

"We have a problem with......"

So we went. I fixed the problem.
And we had a very nice lunch. Irish stew made with fillet steak.

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

In all fairness to the "cheeky blighter," it does sound like you were well-compensated for your work. :thumbsup:

 

[Besoeker]

Cheeky of him, yes, but I'd find that a very attractive trade-off for time with one of my incredibly-distracted sons. Forgive me, but I'd commit acts of plumbing, to spend the incremental meal with him.

That sounded pathetic, didn't it? Well, I'd happily replace a device, I know that much.

Not at all pathetic. They are always our children.
Just a loose wire but I did replace the dimmer. I'd got a new one and it looked a bit smarter.

My three children don't close us. London is the nearest but still an hour trip. The other two are a hundred and three hundred miles away.

Another tale, another child. Another lunch.
Mods be kind.

This time a washing machine. An electrical appliance mods.

"Dad, it's making terrible banging noises."

OK. A 200-mile round trip that we were due to make anyway for other reasons*.
To Robin Hood country.

"Yep J.. It's making terrible banging noises on the spin cycle."
"Would you like me to take a look?"
"Dad!!!!!!!"

I did.
There are heavy blocks that look like concrete attached to the outside of the drum to help counteract unbalanced loads. One was slightly loose.
Fixed. Had lunch.
*And absconded with the two little grand girls, about 18 months and 5 at the time, for a week.

 

[mbrooke]

Interesting! So are the folks in Europe better-accustomed to consumer electronics that go "bang" in the night?

Europeans are better accustomed to low cost CFLs going out with a bang:lol:. When a rectifier bridge fails at 230 volts the carnage is always greater than 120 volts. That's my guess as to why your device self destructed.


No offence but when I hear about electrical equipment going boom boom in Europe I laugh:lol: But still my sympathy on what happened. Ive had equipment grenade on me before, its far away from any pleasurable experience:rant:

 

[Besoeker]

Europeans are better accustomed to low cost CFLs going out with a bang:lol:. When a rectifier bridge fails at 230 volts the carnage is always greater than 120 volts. That's my guess as to why your device self destructed.


No offence but when I hear about electrical equipment going boom boom in Europe I laugh:lol: But still my sympathy on what happened. Ive had equipment grenade on me before, its far away from any pleasurable experience:rant:

See post #30.
If things go bang, and sure it does happen, it must be quite rare. I've mentioned relatives, neighbours, friends, and colleagues. None has reported anything like the catastrophic failure of a phone charger.
We have CFLs at home. For years. The mode of failure, I think we've had two, is that the fade.

I have to attend mandatory electrical (and other) safety courses - it isn't a topic that comes up.
And, as a company, we make lighting controllers. As it happens, they go all over the world. Google Burj al Arab. About 3MW of controlled lighting. I've yet to hear of one explosive event. I can't rule out the possibility that there has been an isolated case but more that a handful and it would end up on my desk........just as the overloaded neutral issue invariably does.

And,speaking of neutrals, the 120-0-120 system isn't used here. It's straight 0-230V. So the possibility of a lost neutral, often mentioned on here, isn't going to subject anything to twice rated voltage isn't an issue.

Oh, and no offence taken.

 

[mbrooke]

See post #30.
If things go bang, and sure it does happen, it must be quite rare. I've mentioned relatives, neighbours, friends, and colleagues. None has reported anything like the catastrophic failure of a phone charger.
We have CFLs at home. For years. The mode of failure, I think we've had two, is that the fade.

I have to attend mandatory electrical (and other) safety courses - it isn't a topic that comes up.
And, as a company, we make lighting controllers. As it happens, they go all over the world. Google Burj al Arab. About 3MW of controlled lighting. I've yet to hear of one explosive event. I can't rule out the possibility that there has been an isolated case but more that a handful and it would end up on my desk........just as the overloaded neutral issue invariably does.

And,speaking of neutrals, the 120-0-120 system isn't used here. It's straight 0-230V. So the possibility of a lost neutral, often mentioned on here, isn't going to subject anything to twice rated voltage isn't an issue.

Oh, and no offence taken.

Thanks!

Reading up I think its possible the charger IMO may have failed from the electrolytic capacitor getting line AC voltage once rectifier bridge failed. But its impossible to say for sure.

I got this from the net, kinda supports my theory.

Reference: http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

 

[Besoeker]

Thanks!

Reading up I think its possible the charger IMO may have failed from the electrolytic capacitor getting line AC voltage once rectifier bridge failed. But its impossible to say for sure.

I got this from the net, kinda supports my theory.

Reference: http://sound.westhost.com/articles/incandescent.htm

Interesting find, thank you.
Some good points and some that I don't agree with. C'est la vie.
I'not sure about your rectifier bridge failure theory.
In my experience, diodes (and other semiconductors) usually fail short circuit. That would cause fuse failure.
Look at Figure 6 in your attached article. Call the two input terminals L & N.
If the top left hand diode fails sc then when N goes positive WRT L as it must withing a half cycle, you have a path from N via the positively biased top right hand diode, the sc left hand one back to L.
Bang goes the fuse......

 

[mbrooke]

Interesting find, thank you.
Some good points and some that I don't agree with. C'est la vie.
I'not sure about your rectifier bridge failure theory.
In my experience, diodes (and other semiconductors) usually fail short circuit. That would cause fuse failure.
Look at Figure 6 in your attached article. Call the two input terminals L & N.
If the top left hand diode fails sc then when N goes positive WRT L as it must withing a half cycle, you have a path from N via the positively biased top right hand diode, the sc left hand one back to L.
Bang goes the fuse......

I agree with your points. FWIW just to add not all CFLs have line fuses. The one in the link does however. I think your explanation is correct over the article now that I think about it.

 

[Besoeker]

I agree with your points. FWIW just to add not all CFLs have line fuses.

I quite agree. But there will be, or ought to be, an over current protection device somewhere upstream

The one in the link does however. I think your explanation is correct over the article now that I think about it.

My thoughts on diode failure are just based on experience.
The article is well put together.

 

[mbrooke]

I quite agree. But there will be, or ought to be, an over current protection device somewhere upstream


My thoughts on diode failure are just based on experience.
The article is well put together.

Id hope:lol:. The article does draw attention to some interesting facts I never considered about CFLs, but that's another thread for another day.